We're interested in hearing what everyone has to say about the DC Exam Study Zone. Take the time to submit your feedback using our online feedback form too!
"love it"
"This was found under the FAQ section: "Are groups still welcome to study in DC? Yes. Groups are still welcome to study at the tables in DC, however, we ask that groups converse quietly during this period." To be honest, Groups are definitely NOT welcome to work at DC, because quiet conversations will inadvertently become louder and louder. And librarians do not need to "ask" people to be quiet, people coming to DC should automatically know noise is NOT tolerated in anyway."
"I find that UW students are too passive-agressive. Having switched from another university, let me assure you, it's not just up to the police and librarians to shut people up. Don't be afraid to go up to a loud table, and tell those people to shut up -- politely of course. hopefully, more and more students will follow suit. While I was at my old university, if a person/group of people were loud in the LECTURE HALL OR THE LIBRARY, literally 5 other assertive & mature individuals will beat me in telling those obnoxious people to shut up. Seriously. Students complain how high tuition costs are, but yet many of us are too afraid to tell the distracting people sitting near us in class and/or library to STOP TALKING. Change will be more effective and satisfying if every student took the initiative to tell the loud individuals to be quiet.. Do you think the "selfish pigs" (as coined by many posters here) will read this forum and feel guilty? Venting is fun, but now it's time for the students (who are advocating for a better library), along with the support of the university, to ENSURE that quiet & accessible study spaces are back to being a RIGHT for students--and not just during final exams."
"I personally think DC resemble more of a high school caf than a university library. I used to attend U of T, and I never realized how important QUIET study space is until I switched to Waterloo. I'm extremely disappointed at the groups of obnoxious students who ABUSE DC. I'm not here to compare schools or attack the library. Some UW students ought to go to libraries at other universities: people actually clean up after themselves. More importantly, people go to the library to do work. Prioritize: there's a time to concentrate on work, and there's a time to party. I'm hoping to shed some light to the overly obnoxious & loud students--those that "pseudo-study", when in fact they are there to socialize. Not only are they noisy, they take up valuable study space from students who NEED the tables to do work! Some push for "Go to DP if you want a quiet space", and how is that fair? DP is nice, but basically telling students to walk the extra distance (imagine that during the winter), just so they can get some peace and quiet is nothing short of ridiculous! (Plus, DP is not 24/7 during exam time). Students have the right to quiet study space, not just during final examination period. The silent study areas in DC are not completely silent: the noise from the main floor echo! Ear plugs are uncomfortable. Of course, the university itself should invest in building more 'group study areas' and 'study spaces'. Though I heard such spaces are in the works...it's unfortunate some of us won't be around to use them."
"Davis Library's layout: http://testtube.uwaterloo.ca/whereisit/index.cfm?bld=DC&floor=2 Most of the library layout is good as is. The problem is in the middle left open area. If the book cases for call numbers TA 772 to Z were moved into this space and spread out in sections so they line up with the beginning and end of the main A through TA section, there would be room for sets of two tables spaced out between several book cases. More could go in enclosed and soundproofed study rooms built to go where the TA 772 to Z cases are now. Some of the tables should be removed as there are too many now. Among other problems Davis suffers from overcrowding, amplifying even moderate noise. Most of the main floor would be untouched with these changes, but the result would be a complete transformation of Davis into a healthy, functioning library. This would encourage students to be more proactive in finding the many other places on campus for noisy group study. We hope something along these lines may be accomplished before September."
"After seeing some people bullied about their position on changing Davis, and how rude they were to library staff, I agree with calling these students 'hooligans.'"
"There is no reason Davis Library can't be quiet. I hear it once was a normal library. It should be again. There are plenty of empty classrooms for group study if people just get off their butts and find them."
"Here is a link to the contractors responsible for the current situation: http://www.twfp.com/en/designstudio/UWDavis.asp Notice within their slick industrial prose they say one of their objectives is “separating incompatible uses such as quiet from collaborative study spaces.” I think we all know how completely incompatible they are! Also notice how proud they are to have “increased the density of book storage and created much-needed space.” What we now need to do is spread out the book storage to create much-needed quiet. While the question mark appears to be a typo, I think it is appropriate, “Students now find the Davis Centre Library to be a more comfortable and enjoyable study environment? especially during busy exam periods.” Uh huh."
"Oh oh! A Fine Arts Major complimenting engineers on "sophisticated analysis and creative thinking?" What's next? Dogs and cats living together? :D"
"I am ashamed to have to agree, the term "hooligan" is the best fit for what I saw here during exams. I am disgusted at what Davis has turned into."
"I must agree with the statement that we have witnessed "hooligans defending what they saw as their turf." I have heard about some getting grief for disagreeing with these bullies. This is shameful behaviour for students and the university must take this seriously. You must remove the 'lounge' from the library."
"I like two recent posts and think their comments go well together. One quotes from the website talking about the "lounge" at the entrance and how it spread. I agree completely. I am afraid the same thing has happened at Dana Porter with the Browsers coffee shop. In both cases there is nothing separating these areas from the rest of the floor. The other post said the real source of the hostility toward the changes came from "hooligans defending their turf." This may overstate the case a bit, but I must agree with the spirit of the observation. The lounge culture is clearly something so precious to these students they reacted with surprising aggression to what they saw as the library threatening their sanctuary. I think most will agree this is an unhealthy atmosphere for a library and support whatever the librarians choose to do to address it."
"I have been here a while and feel very old compared to many around me, especially during exams in Davis. I think those people lecturing the idiots about not finding alternative study space are missing the point. The sad spectacle we saw during the past few weeks involved hooligans defending what they saw as their turf. There is only one way to deal with this mentality and that is with a firm hand. With exams almost over the ball is in the librarians, faculty's and administration's court."
"I wonder if they guy filling out all those forms in the middle of the night is the "Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library" guy? Already that stuff, which seemed so vital a few days ago, is looking pretty silly. Things went sideways here for a couple of weeks and are beginning to become balanced again. I think Davis has become real unhealthy and needs some sort of work. I don't know what can be done in this economic climate, but wish everyone the best in turning this around."
"Its exciting! It's dynamic! It's a mess! When I first came on campus I knew I would spend a lot of time in Davis. I was amazed when I walked in and felt like I was standing in Union Station. Wow! Club DC! How cool is that? Unfortunately, I realized its really a giant club house. What was originally a stimulating environment is now just annoying. After spending most of my first term here I stay away as much as possible. A library inspiring immature and petty behaviour is doing something wrong. I am glad to hear staff have decided to close 'Club DC' for good."
"On the ‘Locations - Davis Centre Library’ site there are two paragraphs: “Study tables are available throughout the Davis Library. Quiet conversation is allowed at study tables, but cell phone use is not permitted. Cell phone ringers should be turned off. Some study tables have power and Internet connections for laptop use. The lounge is located near the Davis Library's exit. Comfortable chairs are provided for patrons to engage in quiet conversation and study. This is the only area where patrons may use cell phones within the Davis Library.” This has been online for a while and may go back to when the renovations five years ago were complete. We can now see how the ‘lounge’ spread throughout the building. I suggest there is no room for a lounge in either library. Once it is there it spreads everywhere. Lounges should be lounges, study halls study halls and libraries libraries."
"Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library - hahaha, just kidding. I am a Fine Arts major who only stuck my head in the door of Davis once before running like hell. ;) We joke about students going to get a bite to eat in the big cafeteria with books in it. I am writing something here because after hearing from a friend about the intense weirdness (even by Davis standards) there I took a look at this forum. I must admit I had the stereotypical notions of the writing skills of Engineers but I want to tell you I am extremely impressed. You guys go way beyond anything I expected in terms of sophisticated analysis and creative thinking. Never again with I think of you as knuckle draggers. The few people fitting my pre-conceived notions are outclassed on this forum. I noticed right away when the one guy tried to post his message twice and you immediately jumped all over him. Couldn't have said better myself! I wish you good luck in sorting out this Davis thing."
"Thank GOD exams are almost over. Thank DAVIS LIBRARIANS for trying to salvage this insane place. When we are out of the way, please clean house!"
"Things have improved a lot here. Many of our exams are done and some people are gone. The tension is easing and the anger that filled this place is starting to melt away. What happened here this past month wasn't pretty. There has been a lot of arguments and unacceptable behaviour. Even though I still have exams today and tomorrow, I feel like Davis has been feverish and the fever is now easing. There was something unreal about the mentality in here and I am so glad it is going away. This has nothing to do with exams. I have been here for exams before and while things got hairy, it was nothing compared to this. My girlfriends and I had problems because we didn't laugh at the stupid jokes going around about the librarians. It was all so childish! We hope you figure out what to do here for everyone's sake."
"To the person who re-posted the exact same message, even though his original post was aggressively critiqued by several people: I am curious, what could be your motivation? You had an opportunity to respond to the various points people made to your original message. You could have furthered the debate by defending your position and showing how it was superior to theirs. Instead, you have attempted to plant your perspective again without acknowledging either repeating your message or any of the responses to it. To my mind, this suggests a dogmatic mind set. You are like a religious fundamentalist who answers every comment with "the Bible, Quran, Gita etc. says . . ." despite the fact that argument is already done with. Doesn't make your position look very solid does it?"
"Interesting how those against Davis being turned into an actual library have had nothing to say to the many good posts on this site. When they do post something, instead of rising to the occasion and making good counter arguments, they just send the exact same message again. Pretty sad if you ask me."
"Give it up! Somebody is starting to SPAM this form with the same message, beginning with "Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library." Come on! How lame can you get? The first message got all sorts of responses, showing everything they said was bogus. Their solution? Send the whole thing again hoping no one will notice?? Do everyone who has a life a favour and get a hobby!"
"The solution to the Davis debacle has to be campus wide. The university as a whole has to take this situation seriously and work together to address it. Exams are almost over. Now is the time to plan for real change before the fall term."
"Is it my imagination, or has somebody posted the comment 'Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library' twice?? Pretty lame bud. You don't even try to answer all the people who made effective counter arguments after you posted it the first time. The opposition is looking pretty sad."
"I did an all-nighter last night and during a lull saw one person moving around picking up scraps of paper from some tables. I became curious when later he walked around again and put them back. After he was gone I went up and saw they were the little surveys about the Exam Study Zone. The few nearby were dozing and I guess he decided it was a good time to rig the results. I am not too worried. He maybe did a dozen and was sleep walking like the rest of us. I saw people collecting them later and his few won't make a big difference. You have to wonder when people are so threatened by change they have to resort to such actions. The few of us left from last night are getting ready to leave and the new studiers are arriving. I see staff walking around saying 'good morning' and smile. These guys have put up with a lot of crap from us lately. Yet they keep trying and I appreciate it. Students do not realize how much faculty and staff do behind the scenes for them. Thanks for enduring our biting your hand while you try to feed us."
"This past month has been surreal in Davis. As soon as the barriers went up, people started acting crazy. It wasn't really the barriers, but what they represented. Exams ratcheted things up more and the result was not something we should be proud of. I am almost done and look around at this place with more perspective. The hostile and aggressive culture is fading and many of the worst offenders are leaving. Why did many students react with such hostility to the Quiet rules? Why did they lash out at staff? A lot of things are beyond our control and much of the term we are hemmed in by class schedules and huge work loads. Many saw Davis as a haven where they could blow off a bit of steam. I have a question. Is this what a library is for?"
"Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library. The dividers that were put up were unnecessary, unaesthetic and really need to be gotten rid of. The DC was the only place to study with a group- Dana Porter was and always has been known as the area for quiet study. DC still has study carols, the entire downstairs area and silent study rooms- plenty enough for people who need peace and quiet. I for one am advocating that this be a temporary measure that hopefully will not be reinstated in the coming semesters. Where else can we meet for groups? Science students shouldn't be kicked out of their own library just because some of us prefer to study together. Thank you very much."
"Jamming cell phones would make a huge difference at both DC and DP."
"Things are calming down for me and I have looked through the forum here. People have been getting pretty angry and I hope we can regain some perspective now that a lot of exams are done. I do not agree with calling people names and making people wrong for how they wish to work. What we need to do is find a way for everyone to have what they need to work here. I hope everyone involved can come up with some creative solutions to the study space situation and that Davis can be re-designed to make it a more quiet library. Thanks for the opportunity."
"To the President, Administration, Faculty and Library Staff: there can be no doubt Davis Library in its present form has failed. No definition of library includes games room and dating service. All it takes is one noisy table to disrupt the room. Whatever the original thinking behind the open area, the present situation cannot be the intended result. A library is a learning institution and has to be accountable to the highest standards. On the other hand, an open study area has very different criteria. This is a much more informal and relaxed environment suitable to a wide range of both work and social activity. A university needs both environments, although clearly they do not work under the same roof. The time has come to put an end this absurd arrangement. Given the wide range of behavioural and social absurdities now taken as the norm here, the solution is relatively simple. As someone has already said, “just move stuff around.” There should be no more than two long tables in any one spot, surrounded by book shelves and other barriers. Most if not all tables should be inside enclosed study areas like the very few here now. A number of people suggested a new layout. This involves a series of new study rooms along the left side of the library with the book shelves relocated in the middle, with perhaps a few tables between. This is clear and does not require further study. The university community expects this taken care of in short order. Thank you for your attention."
"That's it! I have just seen someone tampering with the library's comment cards. I have had it with this place! The culture here is bizarre and unhealthy. I will not spend time here again until this place is fixed."
"Along with being selfish and unfeeling to anyone else, people here are lazy. There are lots of empty classrooms they could use, but they can't be bothered to go to them. Right now all that is bad about people is showing up here."
"I have started saying thanks to every staff person I see. They need to know we appreciate what they are trying to do. I am ashamed of my friends now."
"I have just heard the library is putting out feedback forms. I will not stay in Davis long enough to look for them. I will say here I spend as little time as possible in Davis. I need to get reserve books and then go out. Just coming in now makes me sick. I have disliked Davis for a long, long time, now the library has challenged this situation, things are very bad and I can't stand being in there."
"Thank you librarians for trying! We are all exhausted and sorry about how this has gone. A lot of students sure haven't come off looking all that good in this! I have way more respect for staff then I had before. I hope they learn from this and take this situation over."
"This sorry situation came about because students told the library what they wanted. Now you have to clean up this mess and you want to ask their opinion?"
"Please do not let the Quiet area situation keep you from taking the tables out! Someone said here surgery is the only answer and I agree."
"Please block cell phone transmission in both libraries! How I wish I went here back before they were created! How did people get by without this constant stream of inane conversation? Don't be fooled by the notion we must all have our cell phone in our ears so as not to miss an important call. Everyone should be getting up and walking around every half hour or so. You can check your messages out in the main hall and get back to anyone necessary. There is no reason for this constant idiot chatter inside a library!"
"I avoided looking at this, assuming it would be one infantile tirade after another. 'I pay tuition - I say what goes!' Instead, I am amazed both at the quality and quantity of comments. It appears this forum is the perfect place for those with something between their ears to not only support a much needed change to Davis, but suggest several options and even look beyond the library to the larger questions of study space on campus. Bravo! I appreciate the wisdom of making this anonymous given the extreme hostility being shown this project. Let me say to every one of you thanks for taking the time to let the staff know we aren't all screaming brats in here."
"Selfish, indifferent, uncaring, are all words I would describe two groups either side of us here. If a cop shows up they are quiet, otherwise they could care less about anybody. A library shouldn't let this happen."
"I must agree with the person saying the Quiet area has failed once it became obvious "the rules had no teeth." If people have a choice of doing the right thing for everyone vs. the convenient thing for themselves, they will always choose themselves. They also will feel justified in going to any lengths to keep it that way, including tampering with electronic and paper polls. Someone said psychology students should come and study this place, while it might be an interesting assignment, the sad truth is this kind of general selfishness is well known."
"I'm amazed at this myth of Porter being quiet. Only a Davis regular would say so! The main entranceway is so loud I can't concentrate in the study area in front of the Circulation Desk. Do people really think everyone wants to know about what they did last night?? There are havens in Porter, the first floor and the fifth floor are full of people in an open-concept study area. Davis types would not believe how quiet they are. Unfortunately this is changing. Porter needs to have something similar to Davis in the form of warnings. Unlike Davis, these warnings have to be followed up be action or no one will take them seriously."
"Somebody asks here "Where else can we meet for groups?" Dude! There are no classes going on!!! MC and other buildings are near empty!! There are lots and lots of rooms with nothing going on in them all day! Where else can you meet in groups? Anywhere and EVERYWHERE ON CAMPUS!!"
"Davis is not owned by Science students! It is for everyone wanting to come here. The big problem with this place is groups from Engineering and Science thinking they are entitled to do what they want in here."
"I do not use my cell in the library. People call and leave lots of messages. I get back to them and they had nothing important to say. Why should I take such calls in the middle of the worst day of exams IN a library?"
"We decided to take a mental health break from Davis and went over to MC. In no time we found an empty room and are set up just fine. No one is in the other rooms and they could all be used for group study. "There's no where else for group study than Davis?" Bullshit!"
"Thanks for this forum. Everything I think has been well said here. Davis is mess up and needs fixing. Many students are ignorant selfish pigs. The staff should get medals for trying to help us. Like many others I beg you not to let this continue."
"My dad says "I don't know art but I know what I like." It's a family joke given dad is colour blind! He is pretty cool about admitting stuff he doesn't know. I have told him about this situation and he says from what I said most students in here are like him, "colour blind." They are fixated on what they like and blind to the big picture. The library has to be a welcoming place for all students and have an atmosphere conductive to working in it. Right now, some people's work style ruins it for everyone else. This is not right."
"There is no hope for this place. People are messing with the cards the library put out today. They will stop at nothing to get their way. The only thing they cannot touch is this forum. Thank you for providing it."
"Oh give me a break! Where else can we meet? Use your heads! There are lots of places! Use your power for good for once. If you think there are not enough group study areas, ask your profs Why Not? Ask the administration Why Not? It is not up to the library to compromise itself for your convenience!"
"If you guys were serious about making this work, you should have forked out some real money and hired real security guards to enforce the rules. You should have been following through every time you had to go back to the same table by tossing them out. "Second warning - out you go!" This is not a job librarians are trained for. They say the best investment in a safe community is crime prevention. This open area is a fertile ground for people to act out inappropriately. Remove it and most of our troubles will be over."
"It is NOT the job of a library to be a study hall! If you want to study in groups, there are empty classrooms and lecture halls. Why do you have to impose your noise on the rest of us?"
"The only way this place would be quiet is if you took down the dividers and put gags on everyone as they came in. This place is more like a playground than a library."
"I have just read the post being kind to librarians for making the mistake years ago of turning this place into a zoo. Sorry guys, I am not so kind to you! WHAT were you thinking?? If most students asked you to take the roof off in the summer would you do it? The fact a lot of people say something does not make it right. You have the expertise to make this place work - use it."
"Hi, this is a comment about the nature of the DC library. The dividers that were put up were unnecessary, unaesthetic and really need to be gotten rid of. The DC was the only place to study with a group- Dana Porter was and always has been known as the area for quiet study. DC still has study carols, the entire downstairs area and silent study rooms- plenty enough for people who need peace and quiet. I for one am advocating that this be a temporary measure that hopefully will not be reinstated in the coming semesters. Where else can we meet for groups? Science students shouldn't be kicked out of their own library just because some of us prefer to study together. Thank you very much."
"I love the new Study Zone, and I wish it could be that way all the time. I just have one request - how about removing those dividers? They're visually obstructing, and don't really have any effect on noise."
"I think this Feedback Forum is the most successful part of the entire project. I hope it will be seen as your best feedback to use in making Davis a real library."
"I have had to study for exams several times at Davis. This was the worst. The library did this with the best of intentions. I know it was very difficult for them. I want to thank all those who tried to make it work. The problem with this project was its base assumption. You assumed noisy students gave a damn about making this a better library for all of us. They don't. Those who did try to be quiet were drowned out and then pushed out. Things have grown nasty and many of us have chosen to study elsewhere. Please do not let this be the end of your efforts on our behalf."
"It is about time! Now it is actually a functioning library. It is safer to study with lots of people around, and keeps one focused on the task at hand. I noticed that the 1st floor of Dana Porter has gotten nosier. Perhaps it is time to enforce the "no talking on cellphones in the library" policy there."
"A group of us are cramming in the open part of the library. A cop has come in and out a couple of times. Whenever he is here, everybody becomes quiet. When he leaves they start making noise again. Your selfishness illustrates why history has gone the way it has. The only thing stronger than selfishness is fear."
"You guys are pathetic! On Sunday morning it has been completely quiet even though the place was full. Why? There has been a police officer standing by the desk all morning. The only way you do what is right is if the police are here. You don’t care about anyone else and only are considerate out of fear. Despicable!"
"It's Sunday morning and the place is full. Everyone is working and it is very quiet. Why can't it be this way all the time? Because the bullies haven't gotten up yet."
"Please listen to everyone here. Over the summer move the bookshelves to the middle and put some of the tables inside contained study rooms along the left side of the library. After that, it is up to the faculties and administration to address the larger issue of not enough group study space on campus."
"The only good thing coming out of this Quiet Zone experiment is this forum. People have finally been able to say what they think in a safe environment and have left librarians with a wide variety of good suggestions. I have read through everything and the themes are clear."
"It is crunch time and I am doing last minute cramming like everyone here. I look around and sense the library staff have stepped back from enforcing the Quiet Zone. I can't say I blame them. Hindsight being what it is, I have to say this was a bad idea. Given how entrenched this dysfunctional library culture is, you would have needed to enforce it big time. The police would have been here constantly. I can understand how library staff lost hope of students co-operating once they saw the rules had no teeth. I believe this library needs to change but the only way is unilateral. Take charge and do what you know needs to be done."
"I honestly think some people have nowhere better to go just to hang out. If they actually looked at a book now and again that might be fine, but even now they are doing stupid stuff they could do anywhere. When I want to have fun I have lots of places I can go. When I come here I want to work and resent selfish people goofing off and making so much noise. The open area with all the tables is the worst. These quiet study walls are no help. Please just move these tables out or rearrange things so this can be a real library for people wanting to work here."
"A lot of people are selfish pigs who have been beyond rude to staff. They do not deserve any more chance to have a say in what has to be done here. Please take these tables out or move them so Club DC is gone. Thank you."
"I think the term Quiet Zone is a problem. Even people who are not being selfish bastards may have different ideas of what quiet is. You should have made all of upstairs silent and have "quiet" downstairs. Too late now."
"Thank you for trying to reclaim the library from the sorry state it has fallen into. I hate 'Club DC' with a passion and spend as little time here as possible. This is a ridiculous situation as everything I need is there. Why should I be avoiding the place I need to use the most? Please take control of this situation and remove the cause, the open central area. Many students needing to use Davis are hoping you will."
"I beg you guys, whatever you do, don't just go back to the way it was! That would send out the message that bullying and whining work. If you are parents, you know what chaos this leads to. Do not reward them! Do not let them win! All of us wanting a real Davis Library are counting on you!!!"
"When this began you guys said a second warning would lead to the student being asked to leave. This has not been followed through. Once the pricks realized staff did not have the stomach (I know I wouldn't) to call the police all the time, they realized they had won and the whole thing went downhill. You also brought in some pretty unimpressive folks to patrol the place. If you were serious about this working you should have hired some real security guard types who would follow through on the original policy. Thanks for trying."
"I am sorry to say the Quiet Zone has failed. I support the library's attempt to take back the library from the hooligans but think half-measures are not enough. I do not think you need to spend your time 'consulting' with us. You are the professionals and given how rude and hostile some students have been, they do not deserve further consultation."
"Dear Librarians, whatever the selfish loudmouth mob says, please do the opposite! Remember for each noisy table there are half a dozen quiet ones thanking you for dealing with them. Thank you for this forum, which is the one thing they can't intimidate."
"This place is becoming more and more of a zoo. The lions and tigers have formed packs and are bullying everyone else. Those of us with better things to do than fight and argue all the time are going somewhere else to study."
"I agree with the comment about going Cold Turkey. This Quiet Zone has just got the noisy guys riled up. What you have to do is pull the rug out from under them. In the fall present them with a real library and they will have to accept it."
"I think demon possession is a better analogy than collective mental illness. I do not recognize people I have worked and played with all term. This is the worst study period during exams in Davis. People are spending more time fighting against the Quiet Zone than studying!"
"Please do not reward bad behaviour. Those against Davis being a library like all others are making this place insane. Do not give in to them."
"I go home to study and am surrounded by sane persons. I come back here and its like being in a loony bin."
"If people had basic social consideration for others, they would not need to be told what to do. Thank you for your efforts. Unfortunately I have abandoned Davis and do my work elsewhere. The place has gone over the edge."
"On the Exam Study Zone main page it says 'Quiet Study Zones. Quiet talking is allowed. Headphones must be used with any device that can be heard by others.' 'CELL PHONES Before entering the Library, please silence your cell phone. Make or receive calls in the Great Hall (outside Library)' How can people complain? The message is clear and simple. If you just did what this said you would have no grief and we wouldn't be distracted by your complaining. GROW UP!!!!!!"
"You can tell the Imprint is full of artsies. They want people to fill out an online form about the Davis Quiet Zone and ask for their name, program and year. They have no clue as to how much hassles people supporting this are getting. Davis is quite insane right now with exams being second and rage over the changes coming first. Go public with my opinion all the tables should be removed? No thanks."
"I am reading Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson. I can't shake the images when I come to Davis. People who are normal and nice outside Davis are transformed inside into something nasty in here. It is not just exams! The atmosphere here poisons everybody. That can't be right for a library! Please do something to change this place."
"I am glad I am not the only one feeling pressured to agree with the mob. I think Davis is like an insane asylum and something drastic needs to be done."
"Remove most of the tables. Change everything around to make this a library. Please and Thank you."
"My friends and I love this forum. It is the one place where people feel safe to say the truth. Davis is becoming dominated by groups united in opposing the changes. We agree Davis needs to change right away. Thank you."
"Unbelievable! Do people really have no idea what the word "quiet" means? Or are they all really that selfish?"
"There are not enough staff going around the tables and the police should be here every evening. Thanks for doing this unpleasant job for us."
"We are thinking of pooling some money so we can buy the librarians a gift for how hard they have been working the past few weeks. They are the only ones helping us study! We really hope they change everything after exams so we never have to endure this again."
"I have seen people taken out by the police, making a big fuss about it too. As if they weren't already disturbing us enough! I have no sympathy whatever for people who ignore the signs, flout the rules and then pay the consequences. I also wish more people were dragged out of here. This place is out of control."
"I appreciate the comment about personal boundaries being different in different cultures. I also think there has to be some general standard of consideration for what other people want to listen to. I am not just talking about cell phones, although that is my main complaint. I just wish people would realize other people are right beside them who maybe would rather not know all their business."
"I wish some people would take a break from their bitching and go for a walk in the nice weather. In the grand scheme of things, Davis converting back into a proper library is hardly earth shattering. Just get over it ok?"
"Davis is getting to be an intolerable place to work. We now go in and pick up what we need and leave. The people who support the Quiet Zone are being driven out by those against it."
"Club DC is the wrong term. How about the DC Institute for the Spoiled and Frustrated? Clear this place out and give us a library."
"I agree with the comment about our having no idea how libraries work. Davis listened to what students wanted years ago and look at the mess it has caused. Librarians should make this a library again and the university should work to make more space available for group study."
"Everybody around me is quite belligerent in opposing these changes. I have seen people hassled for saying anything positive about it. The only place I can safely say I support a quiet Davis Library is here."
"The idiots making things miserable for the rest of us are defeating their cause. Those of us who had no strong feelings about this now turn against them and agree with the library. Please make sure this layout is changed so this kind of social dynamic can't be repeated."
"I agree with the post saying, "I do not know anything about running a library." There are many times when the general public know nothing about how to best run things. Librarians have the training and experience, along with resources and contacts to determine how to best fix this situation. I am mystified as to how they agreed to creating this situation years ago, but we all make mistakes."
"Davis has brought the current unpleasant situation on itself by doing this during exams. I am all for this place being transformed into a real library and quite a few people getting re-educated on how to behave in one. You just picked the worst possible time to start the process. I also agree with others here that half measures are no good. Some people seem to think if they make things unpleasant enough you will back down. NEVER BACK DOWN! Make their bad behaviour confirm your knowledge this has to change for good."
"I saw a couple of guys being escorted out. Needs to be quite a few more gone before this place calms down."
"DO NOT LET THE BULLIES WIN!"
"I know this is a stressful and exhausting time, but that does not excuse abusive behaviour. I am ashamed to say I am a UW student seeing the unbelievably disrespectful way some are treating staff, who are trying to help us all. It is becoming unsafe for anyone to dissent against this juvenile aggression. I can't believe some of the ugly and extreme comments I have heard. Someone on this forum described Davis as a swamp and so it feels. Nasty things are growing in it and it needs to be drained as soon as possible."
"I am gritting my teeth and bearing it to get through this and them am gone until the fall. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE change this place by then. The atmosphere in here is poison!"
"I would like to comment on the person saying Davis is a community. I honestly sympathize with this. University is a big impersonal place and it is easy, particularly for first-year students, to be overwhelmed. I would suggest a far more constructive option is to check out the many groups on campus. They meet regularly and can provide lots of opportunities to socialize along many specialized lines. Look for community there as opposed to in the middle of the library please."
"Things are getting ugly around here. There is no way I am going to say a word about my support for the Quiet Zone. I see others saying the same thing here, if this was not anonymous, I would never post anything. The Imprint wants students to comment on this but you have to identify yourself. No way!"
"I noticed the use of the word "gang" when talking about tight groups of people. Gang is a good word to describe them. They are inward looking. They are aggressive to outsiders. They are indifferent to how they effect other people. They are also insecure, which explains why they are reacting to the library changing. Gangs are made up of people who under other circumstances are reasonable and responsible. We need to change the Davis circumstances and bring a measure of civility back into the library culture."
"Some people are complaining here about others not having 'personal boundaries'. Remember this is a cultural thing and different places have different notions about this. What you consider reasonable boundaries is too much or too little depending on who you ask. I agree this place is a zoo, but we have to appreciate we are a diverse group and take this into account."
"I have heard if someone is escorted out by the police twice they will be banned from the library. Has this happened yet? Could you please do it to a few people to shut the rest of them up? Thank you."
"We are a group of women cramming for a tough exam. We do have to talk together but do so quietly. At the next table are a bunch of big guys who can't keep their voices down. The place is filling up and we are spread out ready to work. Thankfully the librarians are here and are kind and prompt to respond to our complaints. You guys complain about the library messing with your place, but it is students who complain about you. You are messing with our place!"
"Please increase the number of people and frequency of patrols around the open area and along the back wall."
"What part of SHUT UP do you not understand?"
"People in groups act very differently than they do by themselves. Get a bunch of people who are friends and share classes and they are a gang. Right away they have a power an individual, or smaller group, does not have. If you leave everyone out in the open, some groups will dominate others. If every group goes in a library study room, they do their stuff and there is no power struggle."
"I do not know anything about running a library. So why would my opinion be used to decide what librarians know best? You don't need to be a doctor to know when someone is sick and Davis is sick. I am happy to leave it up to the librarians to decide."
"Comments: I have had a fight with my best friend over Davis. We are now studying separately. She is with a group that sit together and make things difficult for me. I never thought I would write anything here, but now this is my only avenue. People are getting unbalanced in their resistance to this change which most people want. This Quiet Zone has become an angry place and I am going to find somewhere else to work."
"I am shattered right now with these exams, but wanted to say Davis is better now. Must admit I was against this originally."
"Thanks for the forum. Early on someone said this place was two good things making a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to study together in a crowd. I like having noise around me. It helps me concentrate. This does not mean I am insensitive to others. I realize it is kind of silly to have this in a library. We need another place close to the library to go to."
"The Quiet Zone does not work because it creates hiding places for people to gather and snigger at library staff and act up more than usual. Don't add all these walls, remove the tables."
"It is not safe for me to speak out on this because some people have become very angry when I say anything. Thank you for this confidential form where I do not have to identify myself. I support Davis in stopping this out of control situation. Please make it permanent by moving the tables out. This campus is full of noise. Everyone disrespects others by showing no respect for themselves. They have no concept of privacy."
"Wow! You guys accuse us of having Dissociative Identity Disorder and Dissocial Personality Disorder? Gimme a break! I am tired of all this control everywhere!"
"I am glad to see there are a handful of considerate cell phone users in here. Why is it cell phone use is allowed in a library at all?"
"People hate change. I know I do. I had gotten used to Davis and did enjoy it sometimes. If I am honest I have to say there were lots of times it got on my nerves. It doesn't make sense for a library to be like this."
"It is true there are places in MC and elsewhere available, but I think Math and other faculties should help by encouraging students to use them. There is also the issue of most reserve material being 3hour loans. This does not give us a lot of time to go somewhere else, set up and study before running back with it. I often stay in Davis during the winter out of necessity, but hate it and would prefer to find other places for myself and our groups to work. Any suggestions?"
"Funny how if you don't like the answer you claim the vote was rigged. Everybody knows the poll was spammed on both sides. Now I hear people complaining about this forum because most people posting to it want the change permanent. Unless what you posted was obscene or promoted violence, it would get on. The library has provided a safe and secure place for students to have their say. Read it and learn."
"Thank you for providing this forum and letting us say something anonymously. Many of us would not post anything if we had to put our names on, as there is some intimidation going on in here."
"Some people say the librarians and police are going after people for using their 'normal indoor voices.' What they are not considering is the effect of a room full of people doing that. You know what happens is the volume creeps up and everyone starts talking louder and soon the whole place is insane. Get a study room and talk at whatever volume you like."
"I have heard that after exams everything is going to go back the way it was. Why? Why go to all this trouble only to have this train wreck of a library continue to come off the rails? I know most people will be gone for the summer and things will quiet down. What about the fall? Please say before all the new students come, along with many current students return, something will be done about how he library is laid out."
"You guys do not realize DC is a community for us. UW is a big place and our classes are huge. SLC mixes everybody and this is ok, but we need a place where everyone in our classes can come together. I know it is too noisy a lot of the time and think I have studied better since the Quiet thing started, but can't we have a place of our own?"
"I was expecting a lot of dumb comments here. This forum is a lot more mature than I thought it would be."
"I have looked through these comments and see a lot of pent up frustration. Lots of people now feel they have a voice and are getting things off their chest. I hope people can tone down the name calling and rhetoric though. We all want to be able to work here and just need to figure out a new arrangement."
"This Quiet Zone has been a pointless exercise. All it has done is divide students against each other. I have had arguments with several friends over this and know of one short fight because of it. I can’t understand how ugly barriers, stupid signs and ridiculous patrols could be taken seriously by anyone. You can’t ‘legislate morality,’ especially during exams. Everyone is out for themselves and I am not apologizing for it. We are supposed to compete with each other and do what it takes to make it. You moral ninnies make me sick! If you can’t take it here, run away somewhere else. Davis is our favourite place on campus and we won’t let it be taken from us."
"Someone told me when exams are over these partitions are going to be taken down and that’s it. That’s it????? PLEASE GOD NO!! Please don’t let it go back to the way it was!"
" The worst of my exams are done and I finally took a look at this page. I was delighted with the first few messages and realized I needed to go to the end and read backwards to understand the references. I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts about this catastrophe. Never before have I seen such an absurd library setup. The tantrums of the loudmouth bullies were predictable and their justifications lame. I can think of nothing to add to the fantastic, insightful and hilarious putdowns they received in return. I notice few of them post anything now. What a relief! We hear far too much from them anyway. It seems many who felt silenced realized the library staff, and perhaps the university administration, are reading their messages. I hope their voices are heard and without further delay, something is done."
"I appreciate Davis trying to improve our exam studies with the Quiet zones. As my mom always says, "when you've got something tough to do, just go cold turkey". No use tinkering, just clear the place out and start again. It is clear Davis is out of control and the only way to fix this is a radical makeover."
"The terms 'us' and 'them' used to mean 'us students' and 'them faculty and staff.' I am now more proud of the Davis staff and ashamed of some of the students I know than I can remember. Good job turning this place around. Please make it permanent!!! As people say here, move the tables out and this craziness will vanish."
"I just saw another example of 'Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.' You guys should send Psych students here to study this place."
"Davis has become a backed up swamp that needs draining."
"Some people are as thick as two bricks! We do not hate Davis Library, we hate Club DC. Get rid of the problem area and the entire library will remain."
"If you didn't have anything important enough to leave a message for, why call me to begin with? "Hey!" "Hey!" "What you doing?" "Studying. What you doing?" "Studying." "Gotta go." "Okay bye." "Bye." Five minutes later "Hey!" "Hey" . . ."
"Davis suffers from BOTH Dissociative Identity Disorder and Dissocial Personality Disorder. You could say one has led to the other. Not only is the space 'mad' but it makes anyone going there insane as well. For the love of God, pleeeease bring this to an end now!"
"These librarians and awesome and some of the students SUCK! How dare you selfish bastards claim to speak for us! You do not! We hate you bullies and what you have turned this place into! We stand with the staff trying to make this place a library again."
"Let's see, "callous unconcern for the feelings of others," "very low tolerance to frustration," "incapacity to experience guilt," "proneness to blame others," and "persistent irritability." Sounds like a definition of Club DC to me."
"I never heard of 'Dissocial Personality Disorder' but reading the description I think this place is ripe with it."
"I think you have the name wrong, but your list of personality disorders fits this place perfectly. Someone said the library created a monster. They are right and it is up to the library to fix it. Selfish bullies like it this way and will fight to keep it. Save Davis for the rest of us please."
"Some people have no personal boundaries. This may be fun at parties, but it is intolerable inside a library. I DO NOT want to hear your gossip, on or off the cell phone you are not supposed to be using, while I am trying to study. Where were you brought up anyway?"
"My study groups are six to eight at the very most. I cannot stand having to shout to be heard. Every group I have worked in has grown to hate Davis over the years. We thought this was the way it was supposed to be and there was something wrong with us for not liking it. We are glad to see this forum and are so happy Davis is going to stop being like this. Thanks!"
"A few of us do turn our phones off or put them on vibrate before coming into Davis. When we get a call we go outside BEFORE we answer. They can wait a few seconds! If we are busy they can leave a message! Most people answer their phones immediately, blabbing away about nothing important for everyone to hear. People are completely selfish and inconsiderate! Because of this, we agree some sort of blocking is necessary to stop this constant irritation of phones going off. If all cell phone activity was silenced, it would go a long way towards making Davis a better library."
"All my classmates want Davis to be a functioning library with separated group study spaces behind closed doors. Forgive me for saying so, but right now we see the Quiet Zone, library staff and police as necessary evils to ensure we can study for exams. Once exams are over, please dismantle this failed experiment and set it up like a proper library. The librarians and police can go back to doing their excellent work and students can have a real library to work in."
"People have to turn their damn cell phones off in theatres and many other public venues. What are people thinking to leave them on in a LIBRARY?!?!?"
"You say demon possession, I say personality disorder. You call the priest and I'll call the psychiatrist. Both would agree if DC was a person they would be a real nut job. Thank you DC for not allowing this to continue. Don't delay! Turn DC into a real library once exams are over! The majority of students are with you."
"The recent post about Davis suffering from a fragmented personality uses the wrong term. The correct one is Dissociative Identity Disorder. I think the analogy is still bang on. The description of those suffering from the similar sounding name of Dissocial Personality Disorder are amazingly accurate for what goes down as 'normal' here. Whatever you call it Davis is one sick puppy! Good thing the library staff can cure it just by moving things around."
"Another way of looking at Davis is as a person who has become possessed and needs an exorcism. How about calling someone at St. Jerome's ... oh, they already have a demon problem over there right now."
"So, other libraries are completely silent and other campuses have study halls. Sounds like Davis and UW have work to do."
"My ordeals are mostly over and I have had a chance to read through everything in this forum. A recent thread has to do with the analogy that Davis is like a person who has slowly gone mad. The original 'personality' of the library was fragmented by the introduction of a study hall 'personality.' Subsequently, a series of increasingly negative and destructive 'sub-personalities' i.e. cafeteria, games room, social club 'personalities' have further degraded the space. I think it is safe to say Davis now suffers from Dissocial Personality Disorder or what used to be called Multiple Personality. The World Health Organization characterizes this condition in part as being: Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility, disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations. Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression. Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment. Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict. Persistent irritability. Sound familiar?"
"I have never worked in a group larger than eight or nine students. Any more than that and things break down. There is no reason for so many study tables to be together. If people want the noise of a group around them, they can download crowd noise and play it in their ears!"
"Thanks everyone for some excellent and thought-provoking comments, you have given me a lot to think about. I am also impressed with the contributions made by those for whom Math is clearly their first language ..."
"I like the message starting "DC is a bit like a person who has slowly gone crazy." I have personal experience with someone being mentally ill. I can tell you good will only goes so far. They need professional guidance and firm structure. Sometimes the only answer is to say NO and weather the storm. Thank you for fighting the madness that is Davis Library. Now you have started we are counting on you to go the distance for us."
"If a lack of funds is holding the library back from moving things no worries! Just give us the word and a bunch of us are ready to do the moving for you! Anything to end this insanity."
"There are times to tiptoe ahead and times to march with long strides. Enough tiptoing librarians! You are bold enough to confront bullies for us, now please stride into the future with a complete makeover of Davis A.S.A.P."
"Davis has not just slowly gone mad, but now is having a psychotic episode. Shock therapy is in order."
"Even after you get rid of all these tables, the libraries on campus are going to have a noise problem for a few years if not longer. The 'evil seed' of Davis is now rooted in Porter and things are getting worse. Along with 'surgery' you will need to do some 'therapy' on the student body. Students here have developed a warped idea of normal library behaviour found no where else. All of us are going to have to graduate and you will need to be vigilant to make sure the new student's don't pick up the rotten habits of this lot."
"Leadership involves consultation followed by decisive action. The library has been receiving complaints for years and held several forums. You now have the evidence of your own eyes (and ears!!!) to prove how a vocal few will resist change to the bitter end. While students have a great deal of influence over how UW operates, there comes a time when the library has to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts before moving ahead with turning this absurd place into a real library again."
"The only people bugging me are other students. The people helping are librarians and the police. Despite our dealing with exams, most of us agree Davis is broken and needs to be fixed. Don't ask those thriving on illness their opinion. Please do your research, consult who you need to and then make the necessary changes."
"I would change the line 'DC is a bit like a person who has slowly gone crazy' to DC is like a person engineered to slowly go crazy. People are selfish, 'give them an inch and they will take a mile.' Creating a huge group study area led to the current dysfunctional culture. The answer is simple. The library created this problem by moving stuff around. Now is the time to move stuff around again. Dialogue over as we cue curtain on Club DC."
"I would like to anaesthetize the whole library right now!"
"While I smiled at the 'bounty bouncers' comment, the issue here is one of perceived authority. Some staff are more authoritative in carrying themselves than others. This is not their fault. They didn't 'sign up' to patrol a school playground. The fault for this situation lies with students' ridiculous attitudes. This is not YOUR library! It is everyone's library! These librarians deserve some recognition for their amazing patience and endurance. Some students deserve to be kicked out of here without further warning."
"I also agree with the funny note about Davis being like someone who has slowly gone mad. Taking this analogy a step further, I wonder if the library has though to consult with the Department of Psychology on campus about this kind of bizarre group behaviour. You should invite the department to send grad students in to study this toxic environment before you get rid of it. They may also have some useful insights as to how to 'cure' the patient with minimal surgery. ;)"
"I agree, Davis has gone insane and nothing short of surgery will help. Take those tables and put them in new study rooms with closed doors along the Ring Road side of the library while moving the books to the middle. Those resisting this have destroyed their own credibility with their childish, selfish behaviour."
"I want to thank the library for providing this forum and allowing a lot of things to be aired which might never have been said otherwise. The face of our student body is shown to have quite a few warts, as shown by the number of times the words "selfish" and "bully" are used. Librarians should have zero tolerance towards any level of abusive behaviour. Studying at a university is a privilege, not a right. Anyone abusing their rights in the library deserve to be thrown out. No one has a 'right' to disrupt others trying to study. Students should have a voice in university affairs. But when that voice is so negative and selfish those whose job it is to run this library should move ahead without further delay."
"I think those against the Quiet Zone have a great sense of humour. I laugh out loud when I see them use words like 'prison,' 'police state' and moaning about being 'slaves.' What they actually are are babies crying in their play pen."
""However, the current setting of the library will not even allow normal talking volume anymore." WELL, you don't talk in the library, period. It looks like some people have a very ill conception of what a library is."
"I'm almost sure students are willing to be a 'bounty bouncer' for loonies and toonies to get rid of all the annoying 'seat grabbers' and the 'vocal minority'."
"It's always like one or two people or a group that bursts their noise like crazy that bothers me so much. Most of people are quiet. I really think we need some sort of a strict ban policy for library yellers."
"It's great! it should be QUIET/NO talking through out the entire library, and not just the cubicles. As well, there should be more power outlets available for the large DC tables."
"LOL! 'DC is a bit like a person who has slowly gone crazy.' LOL! Not only do the people wanting change have better ideas, they actually have a sense of humour! Can I help with the operation? There are a group of typical Davis oafs at the next table, can I start by anaesthetizing them?"
"I think it's a good idea and I really appreciate the effort the library staff has made to start the DC exam study zone. However, I don't think the study zone is effective as people still continue to talk. I think it will be great if the ENTIRE library was restricted to SILENT. I've attended the university of toronto -- and all the libraries I've been to at UofT are COMPLETELY silent, with the caf being the only place that is loud. It is a big change from the DC library, because I feel that DC is more of a caf than a library...which is a shame because I really like DC, and I'd like it more if it were silent, and students would learn to respect other students' need to study."
"Please! Never! Never go back to the bad old days of Davis! Never again! Thank you."
"While I appreciate what the library staff are trying to do I agree with some recent messages here. The Quiet Zone is not the way to go. Someone wrote the library should "go or get off the pot," I agree. You have received complaints for years. Myself and my friends can't stand what Davis has become. Hold your nose until exams are over and then re-design the interior of the library over the summer. I appreciate the university can't afford major renovations. I am sure a few changes, breaking up the tables and moving some of the book rows, could make a huge difference. Librarians should know many of us appreciate your rising to this unpleasant task and are with you. Please don't prolong the agony - just go for it."
"I love it! Davis is mad and needs a tumour (the open area) removed! Well said!"
"There are several messages here about Davis types migrating to Porter. Everything they say is true. They gather in large groups and could care less how disruptive they are to everyone else, just like they are in Davis. One person said someone went up and told them to get a room. I am a big guy but there is no way I am doing that with these guys. I have already seen them be aggressive with reasonable requests to be quiet. I recommend everyone go to the Porter staff. At Davis, they are very good at helping right away and, if necessary, calling the cops. I am sure the same would be true at Porter. This is callous selfishness and outright bullying and should not be tolerated anywhere. Stop the Davis infection from spreading!"
"DC is a bit like a person who has slowly gone crazy. As this has happened over a couple of years, people think what they are doing is okay. They also react in an extreme fashion to any suggestion something is wrong, as insane people do. It is no use trying therapy (partitions, signs) you have to go straight to surgery. Remove the dysfunctional central area and rework the interior and the library will be healed. Thanks very much."
"I am glad someone has mentioned the practice of reserving seats in the silent study area. I agree this is a crummy thing to do at this time of year. I have seen staff coming around and leaving slips on those tables. When they are gone the person holding the seat either whips out their cell phone to alert their friend, or removes the slip. I think the librarians are trying but students are sabotaging their efforts. The more I read on this feedback page and look around, the more I realize selfish students are the biggest problem both the libraries have."
"This quiet zone stuff is difficult and irritating. It is high maintenance and some students appear to enjoy playing cat and mouse with staff. I understand the library wanted to phase in a change, but I would recommend the only way to go is just go or get off the pot. As long as the open area is there, some people are going to treat it as a playground. Several people have posted here recommending re-arranging the room in the summer. I agree. Its the university's library. You know what has to be done. Just do it."
"A couple of people think the answer to this is some sort of referendum. The problem with that is the assumption students are going to naturally vote for what is best for everyone. The sad truth is they would vote for what serves their shallow, selfish priorities. If you take a whole lot of people only thinking of themselves and ask their opinion, everyone loses. History is full of examples where a majority made bad, bad decisions. The other problem with such a referendum is it would not take into consideration what the professional librarians think. There is no way the university can allow such an important institution to be governed this way. I have read a couple of comments here saying democracy is not always the best solution. The librarians have consulted enough, now go ahead and do what is right."
"It's good to have a quiet library, not so good to have staff bugging students all the time. Make a different layout of the problematic area. And what are cops doing in the library?"
"I am taking a break and decided to read through all the comments here. More interesting and entertaining than I expected! One comment I found quite funny. It said if these changes were made permanent it "will drastically diminish the amount of people visiting DC library.” By the sound of it, this person thinks this is a bad thing?!? There are way too many people in here. We need to find a padded room for the noisy half somewhere far away so the rest of us can get our work done."
"I study in both the UW and WLU libraries. There is no comparison. WLU's library is quiet - period. Porter is noisy in comparison and Davis is insane. Why did this happen here? How can it be stopped?"
"Hi there! Thanks to the library staff for working hard for our benefit. I agree with others here that you guys deserve a medal. I also think you should be issued with cattle prods for the few who obviously can't read the signs. ;)"
"Please please block cell phone reception in Davis! People do not have the absolute right to blab away about nothing 24/7 within earshot of others trying to work. The ones who turn their ring off are still using them and hide them when staff come around. What must this place have been like before cell phones?!"
"For all those people who say they want group study during exams, well I have a solution for you. At any given moment a large portion of the lecture halls on campus are not used, why dont you pick your stuff along with your noise and move it into these rooms. MC and physics all have floors with tutor/lecture rooms that absolutely no one is using, if you cant find a group study area....MAKE ONE...and get out of the library. Silent Study is what the majority wants, as seen that DC is still full during this new restrictions. If its what the majority wants it should stay for at least exams. Thank you."
"definately enjoy the silent study, however they need to start cracking down on people reserving seats, when you do a walk through at any one time there is at least 10 seats being reserved. If there is one book on the desk, no one is sitting there someone is reserving it, i have no resepect for people that save seats, nor should the library staff."
"There are two places in Dana Porter library untainted by the “Davis Effect.” They are the Peter Syms reading room on the third floor and all of the first floor. Porter’s main entrance is on the second floor, but if you are a Davis regular and you go downstairs, you will get the shock of your life. The room is small compared to Davis, but is still open with a group of tables filling the centre of the room. Several messages here speak of the “culture” at Davis. This dignifies ignorant behaviour, but besides that, I would agree. People who spend most of their time at Davis now think this is the natural way to be. They claim the librarians are trying to force an “artificial” culture on them. Head over to Porter and go to the first floor. There you will see the antithesis of Davis. Without signs, without warnings, a room full of people is absolutely still. If a cell phone goes off the person is embarrassed and runs from the room to answer it in one of the three stairwells. Imagine a room full of students without a boor or lout in sight! It is possible! Of course, both spaces are quite different from the open area in Davis. I do not propose Davis be a giant Silent Area. I do think Davis has gone very wrong and needs fixing. It is time for a new “culture” at Davis and perhaps that involves the creation of a study hall or halls."
"LOL I was reading through all these comments and saw one predicting if the quiet zone continues after exams far less students will cram themselves into the library. Did it ever occur to you that might be a good thing? This building is not designed for this kind of constant crowd. There has to be a way to find new venues for group study to lessen the strain on this library. Even though they pump the air through here, this place always smells of too many bodies."
"When things are sort of quiet, my group can get our work done together in quiet voices. Each time the noise tide grows it becomes increasingly hard. I wish the library staff would be out in the open area all the time. It would also be good if there was more than one person at a time. I know it is too much to ask, but it would be great if the police showed up more often as that is the only time everyone really behaves. It is crazy that so many people have nothing better to do in the middle of exams than to be testing the limits like rebellious teenagers. While Porter is getting noisier, there is still no comparison. The reason things are so bad is because of this large open area. If the partitions were really sound proof they might help, but they don't help much now. Thanks Davis for trying, many students really really really want a permanent change here."
"I started off thinking this Quiet Zone was a dumb idea. I have watched how idiotic some people are acting and am changing my mind. I am very angry at some people I thought I knew. I have a new respect for the library staff and now support anything they think is right. I sure won't support anything that leads to this kind of ignorant behaviour."
"We want to say how much we appreciate staff helping to keep Davis down to a manageable noise level. We had to go up to the desk twice to complain about the noise and both times different staff were very pleasant and efficient in going out and addressing two different groups responsible. They were a class act in handling them and came off looking way better than the students. Those guys are always dissing Davis now, but we know who is the problem and who we can go to for the solution. Thanks!"
"You guys need to hire some bouncers to monitor noise. Some of the new staff are not very good at dealing with rude comments and stupid antics. The rest of us appreciate what you are trying to do to help us. Please never go back to the old Davis."
"There are already several messages here about bullying. I have seen people being hassled if they do not follow the 'party line' of resisting these changes to Davis Library. This is too much! We have so much work to do and are under so much pressure! The library is trying to help us do our work. Do not let the cheaters and bullies win!"
"DP used to be a quiet library. Now the tables are occupied by noisy engineers. The only student with enough guts to ask them to be quiet was yelled at and threatened. I think I'll be studying in my dorm room."
"While everybody is talking about the noise. I want to thank the library staff for going after smelly food. I hate it when I have to smell other people's stuff. Why is it no one considers how their actions affect other people?"
"I don't care either way what happens at Davis. I have read through these comments and am interested what I find. Those not liking the changes are not articulate and have very little in the way of suggestions. Those who like the changes are generally more constructive. They have taken the time to think of a variety of ways to make things better for everyone. As a neutral observer, I have to say the "yeah's" have a lot more concern for everyone, while the "nays" are only thinking of themselves."
"Amazing! For the love of God please keep this, and do something similar in DP. I find that some of the international students do not know basic library ettiquette and it is extremely distracting to everyone else trying to study. What about putting a cell-phone jammer in the library? (That drops the signal from cell phones, so you wont be able to use them on the floors but maybe in the lounge/main floor)."
"Please have more patrols around the common area. If people were there more often the noise would not creep back up. Every time they come around it gets quieter only to get noisy again. There needs to be more staff presence to enforce the peace for the rest of us. Thank you."
"I wish the police could be in Davis all the time! It's like high school all over again with juveniles constantly testing the limits to see what they can get away with. You guys are miserable self-centred twirps to be so rude to staff who have always been there to help you. Now you aren't getting your way, you disrupt our work. Lots of us do not find your giggling defiance amusing while we try to study. We think the librarians deserve a medal for having to put up with you and they should definitely make these changes permanent."
"It's good they're trying to make dc quieter but this is the WRONG way. They should have told people from the start to be quiet at the tables instead they let it go on for 3 years (I'm in 3B) that would have been an easy solution from the start but instead that went to an extreme that is not working and that puts added stress on the students. Sunday April 12...there were two staff members that continuously worked around the cubicals in the silent study this was really distracting and unnecessary."
"It's like a prison! I think we were studying for exams not committing crimes in jail."
"I think it's bullshit!!!"
"We were studying in the open area. People around us were talking loud and using their cell phones. It got so noisy I went up to the desk to complain. The staff person was very helpful. He suggested I go quietly back to my desk and he would come out in a minute, so no one would think I had complained. As soon as he walked around most everyone quietened down and their cell phones vanished. One group kept being noisy and he went right up to them. He smiled and spoke quietly to them. I heard one say, “who complained?” I didn't hear his answer but they became quiet. Later I came up to thank him. He said several other students had since come up to also ask for help. The people who are making it difficult to work at Davis are other students, not library staff."
"I have heard some people at Porter complaining about Davis refugees having “no library etiquette.” I am afraid Porter regulars are not far behind. There is an erosion of respect for others throughout campus."
"I was fairly disappointed when DC implemented the Exam Study Zone. I always study in the library during exams. DC main area was a great place for collaborative studies. It suited people like me who like to discuss while studying. If I wanted a quieter area, I could always go to the Silent Study sections in DC or study at home. We have gone used to this DC over the years and loved it. The sudden change in quiet rules was to say the least irritating. I would really appreciate if DC can go back to its old self."
"I am a graduating UW engineering student and as you can imagine did "live" in DC for almost three years of UW. However with time DC turned into a hang out spot and the concept of library disappeared, so DP became the only possible location. But this is not the reason to: 1) install disturbing (cheap) looking cardboard separators in DC 2) turn DC into a location with the prison mode where cops are required to keep students organized. The solution for DC staff is simple here: have a campus wide vote (real one, with one vote per UW ID, not the "what do you think of DC study zone" stuff where number of voters exceeds UW poputation by a factor of 5- a bit unreal, dont you think?) and ask one question: Do you want DC to be turned into quiet study library? If the major answer is YES - remove all black tables and replace them with new cubicles (new, not old and crappy, UW can afford it). This change will disable person to person communication and DC will be quiet. If NO is a major answer then it is better for everybody to leave it as it was before "Exam Study Zone" appeared. Honestly, with all do respect, I would give a lot to look in the eyes of the person whose "brilliant" idea is currently implemented in DC."
"I have new heroes and they are librarians. They take on the people we love to hate and make Davis a library again. Thank you."
"If Davis is 'supposed' to be a noisy library, why are the silent study areas always crammed with people constantly trying to find places? When we do find one, we have to listen to yelling and laughing coming over from the noisy side and people talking about stupid stuff on their phones. There are also some people who can't shut up even there. Thank you librarians for doing this. Please make it permanent."
"It is pathetic the police have to be brought in to force people to be considerate. This after librarians politely say be quiet. Where were you brought up? How did you get into university being so ignorant? Too bad you get a second chance!"
"Some people have no sense of proportion. I didn't care much one way or the other about this issue. I can tune out people pretty easily so don't mind whether things are quiet or not. When we had to work together we always looked for our own space out of consideration for other students. What does irritate me is whining. I wish people would just grow up and learn things sometimes are not going to go their way. If most people don't like the old Davis, fair enough. Throwing a tantrum is only going to make neutrals go over to their side. The messages on this form are quite revealing. Those people supporting this idea are a lot more articulate and have made lots of interesting suggestions. Those who don't are just silly and rude. My favourites are the funny caricatures of the most ridiculous messages. Humour is a sign of both intelligence and maturity, something we could do with a bit more of around here."
"Hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps UW should have built a Study Hall 20 years ago. Now the problem is well defined. Now is when something can be done. The librarians have a job making Davis a functioning library. The UW administration and faculty have a job of making this campus work for students. It is clear the notion of a Study Hall in the middle of a library has failed. The library now must change again to remove this problem. The question for the larger UW community is - what is next?"
"Thank you for hearing our complaints and doing something about this situation. Thanks also for giving us this chance to give you feedback. Most of these posts have been great. We are now looking up about study halls at other campuses. I hope the university is too. The complainers are loud and so we want you to know most quietly say thank you."
"What to be surrounded by noise while you study? Get a set of earphones and plug them in."
"I am glad to see humour used to burst some of the more ridiculous messages here. A Prison? A Police State? More like bullies in the school yard suddenly not getting their way anymore. The best antidote to their hysterics is laughter. Kudos to the library staff for ensuring those unable to read the signs follow the long-overdue rules, sort of makes this place into what? a library?!?"
"I am about to graduate. Things have deteriorated significantly in my time here. What began as a great place to work years ago has become a free for all. The recent changes are a great improvement. I hope Davis can remake itself again by learning from past miscalculations. I also hope UW learns it must take responsibility for the larger issue of not enough group study space on campus."
"It's ok...can be improved though."
"I personally think that the study zone is a good idea. However, there should be a lot more cubicles available rather than the limited amount that are present now. Sometimes it is impossible to find a seat, and studying in the basement of the library is such a nuisance. Only because the desks are old and half of the outlets do not even work."
"f* i am sick."
"some police is just so retarded.... go get bad people... not just stay in dc and ask someone no talking... you tired of this? I tired of this too!!"
"this policy is god damn awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"It's quiet, it's nice."
"If you are going to monitor the noise levels then you should certainly ensure that these are being followed. I have sat at the cubicles along the back window multiple times and NEVER is it "silent". I have sat at the tables in the middle of the library and when there is quiet talking we are told to be quiet immediately. WHY ARENT THE SILENT AREAS THE PLACES THAT YOU ARE ENFORCING NOISE LEVELS THE MOST? I reported this to the person on staff and still i saw them once in the four hours that I have been sitting here."
"Bullies do not always win! :) Thank you Davis for making a library we all can use."
"We used to call DC the "Loudmouth Library," not any more. Thank you very much."
"NONONONONONO!!!! if u want quiet, go to DP!! and DC do hv silent study area already, don't take the group study place away!!"
"The Davis Effect A few of us have coined this term for what I see as the increasingly boorish behaviour of students now turning up at Porter."
"Dear President Johnston: I hope you take a look at comments on this page. Many students are seeing beyond the end of their selfish noses and realize the situation at Davis is part of a university-wide problem. One of the best posts here says Davis is an example of two good things combined to become one bad thing. Davis needs to go back to what it was five years ago. We are told back then students asked the library to create a large study area. This was because then, as now, there are not enough places for group study on campus. The library should not have been converted into a “study hall.” It has not worked. Over time the space has become abused and students now feel entitled to do whatever they want. The staff are being heros, politely and patiently enforcing the new Quiet Zone rules. They try to change a culture that is entrenched. While most students are coming to see the benefit, librarians also get amazing rudeness and bullying for their trouble. Students are also bullying other students in an attempt to return to the “free for all” of the past. This behaviour is tied to the layout and will not change until the layout is changed. Once Davis is a library again we still will have the problem of finding a space where we can do group work. Several people here have said there is nowhere big enough that can be used and suggest several smaller places be found. I think this is the best solution for the immediate future and request you speak with faculty heads about finding areas that could be made into study halls. This would address the study space issue once Davis is re-fitted to be a real library again. Thank you for your attention."
"People still talk in the silent study area."
"Love it - should be enforced better - it is still noisy upstairs. Before, I could not use DC as a study space because it was so loud that I could not even hear myself think. Also it was so noisy that the noise filtered into the quiet and silent study rooms, so I had to go to DP but DP shuts down earlier. Thanks for making it quieter and please patrol to enforce the quiet zone. More group study space - students should petition to expand the SLC. or think about adding more big screen terminals with a group space in DC like the new one in DP.or block off the group area in an enclosed room so the noise doesn't spread."
"Davis is not a study hall, it is a library. You should be pestering the UW Administration, along with Engineering, Math and Science Faculty, to fix this lack of group study space on campus. Allowing this to happen is their fault to begin with. They should have known Davis could not go on like this."
"It is important during exams to have quiet study space, but during the rest of the term the main area of DC should return to a group study place."
"Libraries are one of the last places in the world that students can go to obtain a distraction free, quiet study area. There are a multitude of places that students can gather and talk with each other. I am surprised that the library does not maintain the notion of quiet study all year round. Please keep libraries quiet. Thank you."
"I am reading Death and Dying, by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross. She talks about the Five Stages of Grief. They are: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Silly as it sounds, I have gone through these stages regarding Davis library. I always knew Davis was dysfunctional, but was in Denial about it. Then I heard about the changes and I got Angry. Once the Quiet Zone was in place, I tried Bargaining with the staff. As more and more people changed their minds and a couple of friends started brain-storming about how the layout could be changed to make it permanent, I got Depressed. I now look at the place with nostalgia, as if it were already gone. I have reached Acceptance. You guys do what you need to do. I know you have our best interests in mind."
"Thank you! Please take the tables away or put them in lots of new study rooms. If they have walls and closed doors, library still quiet."
"I think that the exam study zone is a great idea and truly an asset to all students; however, there are several individuals who abuse the "QUIET STUDY" area and talk at a volume that is unacceptable and distracting to people who are trying to study around them. The rules should be better enforced to prevent individuals from doing so; it is not fair for students who want to achieve academic excellence to be hindered by irresponsible students who are inconsiderate and distracting."
"Okay guys, time to calm down. I know people have strong feelings but I think things a getting a bit too intense. Everybody take a breath and remember what our real priorities are okay?"
"I am sorry but this is completely bogus! People do not NEED to study in the middle of a party zone - they WANT to. Well boo hoo! There is no way these guys are going to give up. The only way is to take back the library is by removing the central space. Please! Please change the layout either at the end of this term or certainly at the end of the summer term. I only hope librarians at other universities know about this disaster so it is never repeated anywhere else."
"Wah! Wah! Is right! What a bunch of self-centred brats! It makes me ashamed to say I am in class with you."
"Oh no! I'm in a POLICE STATE! What shall we do? Let's create a resistance movement! It will be heroic! It will be exciting! Let's all be Freedom Fighters! Let's knock down the barricades! Let's mob the librarians! Let's shout at the top of our lungs whenever we bloody well feel like it! Anything to relieve the stress and tedium of studying."
"Thank you to the people breaking silence on this growing intolerance to anyone agreeing with the new library rules. This problem is getting worse and is only adding to our worries. You people are bullies who don't care about anyone else."
"I like the comment about earplugs. As long as they didn't cost anything everyone wanted them. The moment we actually had to give something of ourselves we never touch them. Did somebody already say people are ‘hitting the nail on the head’ in this forum? I am saying it again. It comes down to students being completely selfish. Most of them take, take and take and have no consideration for anyone. It is totally unacceptable that they are rude to anyone disagreeing with them."
"I still haven't stopped laughing over the Wah! Wah! comment. Right on!"
"I heartily agree with the idea of solving this problem by changing the layout. If the library used to be set up properly, I hope they will change it back over the summer. Debate over."
"I have seen people acting like drivers when they had seen a speed trap. They are now signalling to other tables when the staff are walking towards them. How mature is that?"
"Davis is good in the morning, rough during the day, bad at night and then gets quiet again overnight. Perhaps the police should do regular walk arounds throughout the peak times to help the overworked staff."
"I am amazed how selfish students are being. Those against this say the same thing, "I hate it” “I liked it before” “I like my white noise” “I have complete contempt” I, I, I, I, I, no one is considering “we”. Thank you librarians for looking at the good of everyone and standing up to selfishness. I like a recent post saying people are not entitled to be selfish. How true!"
"Ok, this is just getting weird. If you say one word in favour of the new quiet rules, people accuse you of being on the wrong side, or “one of them”. If you smile when speaking with the staff they ask if you are ratting out on them. What kind of place is this?"
"I always liked the library staff. They have always been patient and helpful with me. I am sorry they have to now be Kindergarten teachers trying to calm down an unruly mob of kids."
"People who respect the law have no reason to fear police. The only people having trouble with the fact the police come are those choosing to defy well posted rules. They are responsible for their own trouble. The sooner they are gone, the sooner the silent majority can breathe a sigh of relief and get back to cramming."
"Wah! Wah! I'm in a prison! The guards are making me be nice to other people! Wah! Wah!"
"The university is building lots of new buildings. Why not make sure some space is set aside for group study in them?"
"There is a growing culture of intimidation at Davis. It is becoming unwise to voice anything but ridiculous opposition to the Exam Study Zone. Many who agree are now not saying anything or even agreeing to keep the peace. Some of us are getting what we need and leaving rather than having to deal with this. Thank you for this forum, it is the only place where people can tell the truth about support for all this."
"Davis displayed courage in creating a new open-concept library. It takes guts to go against tradition and try something new. It takes even more guts to admit you were wrong. I applaud the library for coming to its senses and doing the hard but right thing. The next step is to do a major makeover of the place to remove all signs of the open area. Create more group study rooms and leave the problem of creating a real group study area to the larger university community."
"I heard someone saying we must have a ‘noise-tolerant’ study area. I would agree but think it is absurd to say it has to be in a library."
"I have a suggestion to make about the idea of a general study area. I remember a saying: “The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago.” I am afraid this was the best time to build a Study Hall building on campus. In this economy, UW is unlikely to raise sufficient funds from alumni for such a project, even if they finally realize it is a priority. I also think it is unlikely there is a similar sized space on campus that is just sitting there waiting for us. I suggest the three principle faculties concerned with Davis - Engineering, Math and (Computer) Science take some responsibility for solving this mess. Each faculty should find some space of their own for students in their programs. Who says we could not have several or more small study halls?"
"I see an early comment here about suggesting re-arranging how things are set up in Davis. I suggest this is what you must do once exams are over. The only way you are going to break this culture is by removing the space that created it. I also like the idea of building a lot more study rooms along the left side and filling in the middle with the book shelves and some desks. That way the silent study area on the right has two rows of books between them and those working in the enclosed study rooms. The result would be a proper library."
"We come in Sunday morning when the library opens and saw one of the staff walking around picking up a garbage. We said thank you and he was surprised. He said no one had ever thanked him before. The staff put up with a lot! Here we use the place, leave our mess for them to pick up and then complain when they ask us to be quiet! How selfish can people be?"
"I do not like the new setting of the DC library. I have heard that this setting may become permenant. I believe this will drastically diminish the amount of people visiting DC library. DC library is known to not be a quiet library. If people want a quiet place to study, they can chose an alternative study area such as SLC 3rd floor or DP library. Being allowed to talk in the common area of DC is advantages because when students can meet up to discuss group assignments. However, the current setting of the library will not even allow normal talking volume anymore. It creates a much much more stressful environment. During exam period, students are very stressed already. Being able to study with friends and talk to friends while studying is a great way of relaxing. Please change DC library back to the way it was."
"I hear some people complaining about the library ignoring what students want. I then watch them ignoring what their student neighbours want by making a racket. Who comes to help? The librarians!"
"I am sure if the university based all its decisions on what students liked there would be a dozen more bars on campus. There are lots of things that have to happen at a university that are not up to student's whims. Someone said in this forum that democracy is overrated. In this case I must agree. There are times when professional librarians have to do what is right, whether it is popular or not. Please make these changes permanent, the next generation of students will thank you."
"If you're going to make these changes, fine. If you're going to have the librarians enforce it, fine. I wonder how they like it though to be dressed up like library police? I have to say I took them way more seriously when they weren't toting the "EXAM STUDY ZONE" sign and clipboard. Now they just seem like a joke."
"We are struggling to survive exams. Our future depends on our marks. Our families want us to do well. With all this pressure it has been hard to adjust to the changes at DC. I complained like everyone when it started, then I remembered something. DC used to give away free earplugs. I always thought that was bizarre. Then the earplugs went into a vending machine and we had to pay for them. Suddenly no one needed earplugs anymore. We have earned the right to study here, but we are not entitled be selfish. Those people who study quietly bother no one. Those who make a lot of noise bother everyone. Perhaps they are getting stuff done, but in doing so they hamper other people doing their work. Don't tell me I have to go somewhere else so you can do what you want! I need to work in Davis and you need to not be so selfish! The earplugs were like a band aid over a wound. The library is now finally healing the wound instead of just putting a band aid on it. Thank you."
"I think it is great that DC has been made quieter, however there are times when I need to study with a group for exams so we can ask eachother questions and there are hardly any group study rooms. Why not make one floor for quiet study and the other floor for group study. Also, even though there has been less talking, the construction is also really distracting and it would have been better if it could have waited until after exams."
"A recent comment asks if any research was done before converting the middle of DC into an open work area. My guess is there wasn't any. I would suggest the powers that be now begin to research what other universities have done to address the clear need for such a work area. There are several comments about a study hall. I have never seen one, but assume it would be a large open area where students can gather and work without having to worry about disturbing anyone. Is there an existing space that could be used now? I doubt if any new building will be constructed for this. What local millionaire is going to donate to a study hall?"
"Cell phones should be allowed in the Quiet zones - we can talk just as quietly on a cell phone and that way we don't have to worry about leaving our things unattended to make a quick phone call."
"it's totally unnecessary, if they want a quiet area to study, they can go to silent studies or DP."
"At first it was good but now some of the DC staff has gone too far. Telling people to be quite to study during exam time is fine, but to tell people where they can or cannot plug in their laptop is ridiculous. Yes people need to study but the last thing they need is people telling them how they can study, especially during exam time."
"Don't like being told to keep the noise down? I have a simple solution for you - keep the noise down by yourself."
"I have always found the staff at the desks to be pleasant and helpful. I am sorry to see them now having to run after people who don't know how to behave. I am sure they would rather not do this. The solution? Follow the rules for everyone's sake. Seeing those who put money on my card and sign out my books now having to act like parents of spoilt kids makes me want to say "thank you!" I know this is not why they wanted to work at the library. Many appreciate their standing up to noise bullies for the rest of us."
"The library's web poll should automatically shut down as soon as the maximum number of votes possible on campus are made."
"The dividing boards are beautiful compared to how some people are acting. Grow up and let's get to work."
"Instead of chasing after people insisting on leaving their phones on, why not confiscate them for a while? That might help them to remember to turn the damn things off."
"Please keep this going after exams! Davis should never have come to this and now we see how it might be. Someone here said in the fall there will be new students who won't know what it used to be like and that some here now will be on work term. Good! Make this change permanent please!"
"My friends and I are very happy with Davis now. We agree the staff are being very patient and polite in speaking to people. I am sorry to hear some students are making the rest of us look bad. Haven't we all got a little thing called exams to worry about? Thank you for making this a good place to work."
"I like my white noise."
"It's horrible."
"It's awful. If we want quiet study, we'll go to Dana Porter. It's pretty unnecessary to have people walking around shushing us. There are plenty of quiet places in and around the campus for students to study, and those who want it very quiet can just use ear plugs. Being able to focus through noise is a part of life. Learn to deal with it. "
"It sucks....change it back!"
"I don't like it! I like to be able to study in a group and DC is the only place to do this. If you want quiet study go to DP!"
"The old Club DC as noisy as McGill's cafeteria? Sounds about right. Thank you for putting an end to this madness."
"I keep reading the same thing here, "why put a group study area in the middle of a library?" Good question. I saw a comment that Davis used to be set up differently and was changed a few years ago. It is clear we need somewhere like this. When students began asking the library to have an open study area, did anyone look into what other universities do? I wonder if any other campus has an open study surrounded on the same floor by a library. I bet we are the only one! What is important is what the university will do now. We need a Club DC somewhere! I understand it can't be in the library any longer. People have wrecked it by taking things too far. Where can we meet to work in groups instead?"
"DP is being infected by DC!! Please someone stop this invasion of Porter! It is becoming a Noisy Study Zone! You never used to see them, now these guys come in, take over and blab away about how bad it is at DC. I can only think it must be much better now they are gone, but what about the majority who know how to act in a library? Some brave person walked up to one group of three and told them to "get a room." We all laughed and they left. I pity those studying wherever they went next."
"DC's library staff deserve a medal for putting up with the crap they are getting. Adults don't need someone to be their mother and constantly tell them to behave. Most people are being reasonable and many agree with these changes. If all those who insist on turning this into a war were turfed out, we would all be better off. Every time a bad one is evicted, many are silently applauding before getting back to work."
"Oh pleeeeeese!! A police state? Don't make me laugh! We come here to work and keep our voices down so everyone else can work too. Most of those people being warned are not studying. It's always a few who spoil it for everyone. I wish the police would just stay. At least students wouldn't be stupid enough to be nasty to them and we could do what we are supposed to be doing. I feel sorry for the people having to remind these idiots of what is posted on signs all around them. Duh? You couldn't pay me enough for that job, or I would only take it if I got a cattle prod to go with it! Then again, I still wouldn't want the job."
"It's a great Idea....but there is no point since the construction workers picked an amazing time to fix the doors. I am not sure who is reponsible for that but it is almost contradicting. I've been told to leave the library because i was on my cell phone and disturbing the peace of others studying.... who are actually more annoyed by the constant buzzing of the drills then my barely heard voice talking on the phone!!!! I am not happy about it at all!"
"I don't like how all of the people that usually visit DC (the Dating Center) have now infiltrated DP, where it was once quiet."
"They say computer nerds have no life. Now I have seen the library poll I know it's true. Stop your endless voting and get a hobby!"
"I am the eldest sister of a large family. We have a happy and loving home for many reasons. One important one is the respect we have for the word NO. There are times for debate and there are times to get on with it. At such times the word NO is said and that is that. I think quite a few of my classmates and others here have somehow managed to get this far in life without ever having the word NO said to them. There are times, such as now in Davis, when it has been decided to make this more like every other library I have been in. Want to have a party? NO! Want to play cards? NO! Want to tell everyone in the room about your latest boyfriend? NO! Want to gripe, whine, complain, bitch and throw a tantrum because someone actually dared to tell you to be quiet? NO! NO! NO!"
"I liked Davis the way it was. I liked the atmosphere and got lots done while enjoying my friends. But since the Quiet Zone started, I have been thinking. I am not impressed with the silly things people are saying, making me re-evaluate some of my friendships. I assumed this web forum would be the same, a major whining zone. I am happy to say there are a lot of good comments here. Some of them have made me re-think my position. Several posts talk about the notion of a building or floor of a building set aside for study. I had never thought of this before. I did some surfing and lots of universities have this. Someone said we should stop pointing fingers at each other and point them at ... Needles Hall. If this is such an Intelligent Community and this university such a leader, why has such a basic need of students been ignored?"
"I cannot believe the gall of people saying librarians are rude to them! They are clear, polite and do their best to be pleasant. No one can say they don't know the rules, so you have no one to blame but yourselves if you are warned. You sound like a bunch of pissy high school kids! Such juvenile behaviour should be met with good parental discipline. I hope the librarians don't cave in and rescue Davis from the play pen it has turned into!"
"The complainers have it backwards. The problem is not the library it is YOU! I am sick of the toxic atmosphere at Davis. I don't care if I have to walk across campus in this new winter weather. I go as far away from Davis as possible to study, even though everything I need is there. UW has a lot to answer for by creating this mess. A few posts here got it right. Why is it other universities build large study halls while only UW has the stupid idea of putting one in the middle of a library? Of course, we know the answer. The same reason UW does, ore more often doesn't do, anything -- money, money, money."
"I MISS CLUB DC! BRING IT BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS PLEASE :("
"I have looked through all the comments here and also have to smile at the web poll. What is it at now? Some ridiculous number out of all proportion to how many students go here. You'd think all of the City of Waterloo was voting on this. Are you guys so thick to think anyone takes this seriously now that you have to keep voting and voting?"
"Wow, what selfish, inconsiderate people! I just saw someone come up and politely tell some people, who were getting too noisy, to be quiet. She ended by saying Thank You. Despite this they were very rude to her. They deserve to be kicked out! I don't care about either side, being that nasty is unacceptable. I am ashamed to be associated with these people. What an ugly place Davis has become. No I don't mean the paritions, I mean the students!!!"
"I took a year off after high school before coming here. I think by the way some people are acting they should have too. All this bitching is getting real old guys. I never liked Davis because of the noise and come here as little as possible. When we need to work in groups we book a room. Why is it there are so few places for group work on campus? Why to you guys think it is the library's job to provide an oxygen-starved space for you to be obnoxious brats?"
"People are frustrated for good reason. Davis is the only place where groups can work together. I agree with those saying this has nothing to do with the library. Whose idea was it to put a group study area in the middle of a library? We should be asking the FEDS to help us lobby for a real study area, outside the library."
"I think it's great! DC is always SO noisy and people are so loud and inconsiderate of others studying. I don't understand why people go to DC to talk to their friends when a library is meant for studying. Love the study zone."
"The restrictions are ridiculous and went way too far. We are NOT IN PRISON. Policemen in the library? HELLO!?! If you want to fix it, perhaps remove the big tables and put instead desks like the ones behind the shelves. Also, why is it not OK to speak in the common area (with printers) - without being told to shut up? And someone spoke in a rude voice to me: "It's not a house party", I was talking in a normal voice with someone near the printers. Yeah, DC is my house, how about you get out of there?"
"The Exam Study zone is so much better than DC before. DC is usually very noisy and distracting, I also hate the way people ALWAYS left their phones on ring."
"Exam Study Zone seems working fine. It's more quiet now, however, i think it would have been better if we had more power outlets installed with those deskes and barriers."
"Windsor University has a huge building called Dillon Hall for students to study. Why doesn't UW have a study hall like that? Why put a study hall in the middle of a library?"
"I agree that DC should be a quieter study area during exams, but if this change is made permanent, where are students supposed to work on group projects together? Where can we work on assignment together, as suggested by professors? Please do not make these changes all year round, there are plenty of quiet study spaces, and not enough group study areas."
"I would like to voice my opinion regarding the new change in the libraries policy. DC has been too loud for quite some time. I personally stopped studying in DC for this reason; it was impossible to get work done during exam time. I support the enforcing of the silent upper floor, but only during final exam periods. I usually meet in the DC upper floor to work with my class mates in groups and I'd like to continue going to DC to discuss class material with them. I would not like a permanent change of policy. The boards put up between the rows are also unneeded. They serve no purpose (in my opinion) than to prevent people from seeing eachother. Thank you for taking the time to read my opinion. I hope it does not go unheard."
"I am extremely unhappy about the change in the DC library. During exam periods, its the one place I know I can go participate in study groups with my classmates. These are far more effective at helping me ace the exams than any perceived noise level. I have relied on this place for the past 5 years and am extremely unhappy with this change just as I am completing my final undergraduate exams at Waterloo. This is a particularly disturbing change considering there have always been quite areas to go study (not just DP but within DC itself). The open area on the toop floor is always known as the place where you can collaborate with classmates - I do not see any benefit in removing this ability when other alternatives exist for those that seek pure silence (not to mention that everywhere else in DC is considered a quite area)."
"Sucks... Ok, for starter, it is absolutely ridiculous that we can talk to each others loudly and can't even whisper on the phone (even if it's regarding studies). We have to walk all the way outside to take a call and it does not even make sense, when I can put my headphone on and take the call and nobody stops me because they can't tell if I'm speaking on the phone or to the person in front of me. And they catch me if I have the phone strapped to my ears. Absolutely useless! Secondly, the annoying librarian comes like 3 times in a minute to check upon you (seriously don't they get tired). It feels that we are in a prison. Don't get me wrong, I'm the type to study in Silent Study, and I still think that the quiet areas are totally ridiculous. Thirdly, it' gone far with the restrictions. Like my friend was leaning against the wall and he was instructed not to do so. What are we? Some kind of slaves? My friend had his cell phone taken away from him when he in the middle of a conversation. They could have just told him not to do so, why need to snatch the phone from his hands? And I'm not even making all of this up. This actually happened! I understand that a library needs to be quiet, but this is beyond the realms of sanity and comprehension."
"Toning down the noise level at dc: Good Idea The way you've enforced it: Bad Idea The dividers you've put up everywhere to section off areas of the library: Fire Hazard. Please be warned for an upcoming surprise visit by the fire chief. I think by taking an aggressive approach towards the students and in the process being disrespectful towards us also, you have alienated yourselves as the 'bad guys', whereas in reality, you are the helpful library staff who helps us find our books, organizes our messes and occasionally cleans up after us (sadly, sorry.). Because of the attitude change that came hand in hand with this implementation of the quiet study theme, I've lost a bit of respect, and sympathy for the staff and I believe a lot of the student body feels this way also. Please treat us with respect - even if we are breaking your newly formed rules that are still in the process of becoming concrete. You do realize that just as easily as this quiet study idea was favoured it, it can also be favoured out? It's not written in stone, and there are polite ways of telling people to be quiet. Once again, please note the fire hazard. I have spoken to some of the staff about this already and got eye rolls in return. Because of this I've had to alert external sources for a check. A) it's not a change I favour + B) I came to you to talk about it and you were disrespectful = more issues and clashes between the students and the staff."
"I agree fully with the changes. I found over the course of this year, the library has become out of control. Even in the silent study areas, there is still a great deal of noise that can be heard from the common area. I believe these changes have been helpful and I think that they should continue to remain."
"The way the silent zone has been implemented (using boards) makes the area look extremely ugly and depressing. If a quiet zone was to be implemented, then why not only use the librarian/police (seriously?) to make people quiet. The weird boards should definitely go!"
"The recent changes are a huge improvement, but there might be better ways to control noise. The underlying problem is that the people in individual study carrels want silence, and people at the tables want to talk, and these areas are frequently within earshot of each other. Maybe a better layout would be: -Downstairs would have study carrels only, arranged to make conversation difficult. The number of carrels should be increased, by moving the bookshelves closer together to create room. -The left side of the main floor should only have group tables, except for the permanent silent study area in the front corner. The area for group tables should be sealed off by sound barriers -The silent study areas behind the glass wall and on the right side of the main floor should stay the same -Staff should enforce the existing rules for group study rooms (only quiet talking) and silent study areas (no talking at all), which are frequently ignored Dana Porter has similar problems. They should eliminate the tables in the corners of each floor, which tend to attract loud and annoying groups of students."
"i dont like those tan boards that have been put up between the tables - it makes it hard to access the computers and i have to disrupt people to move so i can get out of the table. it also makes me feel like i am sitting in a condensed area with no room for movement and it makes the library feel like a really closed space. and the noise level is still the same as before! i dont see a purpose or a difference with the study zone."
"I think it's a great idea. I find it really disruptive when others talk in the library period. I think there should be more silent study and more enforcement of the quiet study since some people feel they can completely disregard this."
"It's good that it's a bit quieter than before, but the boards and the "cubicles" that were added between the large tables give students a feeling similar to that of being in a small room. What's the point of the boards/cubicles? It does nothing to make the library more quiet. The staff patrolling the area do. Please get rid of the boards/cubicles. It adds to the stress of the students. Especially those that are claustrophobic."
"Great! This is what a library should be more like. To all the critics-It's not that you can't talk anymore at DC. You just can't shout, yell and generally behave like high school children in a cafeteria anymore. I hope this extends all year!"
"I am fine with it as long as it is ONLY implemented during the exam period and NOT throughout the term. The people who study at DC study here knowing that the main area is loud (beneficial for planning group presentations). If students want a quiet area, they can study in silent study, DC basement, silent study room, or many other buildings on campus that are much larger and quieter (MC, BMH, ES, SLC 3rd floor, Optometry, etc.) all of which have plenty of quiet areas to study!"
"I'd just like to point out that both the 'love it' and 'hate it' sides are hugely overblown and it is quite clear that people on both sides are quite petty."
"What people have to realise is that everyone has different expectations. I, for one, study better when there is background noise. The kind of noise that existed before. Now I know this is not really 'normal', but it's the way I am. Group study is also very effective to me, so much so that if I study otherwise my chances of passing are greatly reduced. Now, after hours I might be able to work in DC caf, but during exams class rooms cannot be used reliably since they are being used for exams. With DC reduced to appauling silence, where can I go? Sometimes a bit of white noise is a good thing and sometimes people should learn to cope. Perhaps there is a way to make everyone happy."
"I don't like it at all. I also feel the survey you have on the main library page is biased. You have responses in favour of the exam zone, 1 negative, and two neutral responses. It would have been better to do something like Love it Like it Don't care either way Don't like it Hate it. Your current survey makes it easy for people who really like the new exam study zones to express themselves, but for people who really truly dislike it we aren't being heard that well. Thanks."
"Still just as loud as it was before the new zone rules. I don't get what the point is of having these new rules if you're not going to enforce it."
"Sometimes my friend would be tutoring me, and the lady would come and warn us... I really feel that there should be some area where talking is allowed...if we want to learn independantly in silent, DP is obviously a better choice."
"I think it was a good idea to impilement the quiet study area. However, I have several complaints regarding this new Exam Study Zone. 1. The "sound barriers" are saftey hazards with their extended legs that cause anyone walking through them to trip whilst heading to their seats. Also, they are an eye-sore. 2. The library staff has been going too far with the policy-enforcement. As if student's don't have enough stress, thinking about the upcoming finals. Now, we have to constantly watch our backs to make sure we do not face the threat of being kicked-out of our own school library. I understand that we are not to speak in the silent study (for obvious reasons). However, in the quiet study, while students quietly hold discussions, the library staff unnecessarily warns students to not speak, or to speak more quietly. I think everyone has seen the signs posted all over, and we are all aware of the library's rules. I don't see the necessity of having us be reminded of them every five minutes. It's very distracting. Most of the time, students aren't even being loud. Moreover, I don't see how they can even judge what is the proper level of quiet. Now, it's getting to the point where I feel they don't want us to speak at all. This MUST change. I prefer the old DC, where people had the choice of sitting in the silent study for silent/quiet study or studying in DP!"
"Quiet zones enforced too harshly. Create more silent zones instead."
"I love it. A library is meant to be for studying."
"It sucks on an absurd level. I mean, it used to be an open desk format for a reason. It gave a place for students to get together and discuss their academics or views on current events. Closing it off to a 'traditional' library format only shows the conservative roots of the library administration. As evidenced by the poll on the main Library page, the majority of students loved the social aspects of the former DC library. I highly recommend that the DC sticks to the revolutionary open library format that has worked so well for it in the past. There are enough places on campus for those students who wish for a quieter place to study, but the same cannot be said for those longing for open discussion. P.S. I would appreciate it if the "see what others are saying" page showed anti-quiet zone comments more prominently. Manipulating the showcased comments to pretend like there's more support for the new format than there really is seems very counter-productive towards actually having this feedback page."
"It sucks."
"It's great to see the library taking action designed to provide an environment conducive to study. There are lots of places on campus where people can meet together as groups but few places where one can find a quiet spot. The noise level in DC is too loud during the regular semester. I would love for the staff to consider enforcing a quieter environment throughout the semester!"
"Nice idea with poor implementation, i.e. regarding the cell phones. I'm not going to wait for the other person to hang up while I walk outside the library, nor will I pick up and tell them to wait 30 seconds while I walk outside before answering a simple question. It seems like the staff has already forgotten the entire purpose of this thing, telling someone picking up their phone to answer it outside, while ignoring a group of people talking many times louder a few feet away."
"It's about time!"
"This discussion is an example of two good things combined into one bad thing. On the one hand, a library needs to function properly. On the other, many students wish to work in a dynamic and open environment. There is nothing wrong with either. The problem is putting them together. We are told Davis started out as a normal library. It was changed because students asked for it. Both sides of this debate are right. Your argument is not with each other, and not even with library staff, but with the university. You both should be asking why the prestigious University of Waterloo does not have a true study hall. A great many other Canadian universities have them. For example, St. Thomas University in Fredericton, New Brunswick, describes their McCain Hall as encouraging ‘what universities are all about: personal study, social ambiance and inspiration.’ Isn’t this exactly what the ‘no’ side is fighting for? Study halls are hardly a new idea. They can be found at very senior educational institutions in North America and Europe. Stop pointing your fingers at each other! Stop blaming library staff, which I am sure would rather not have to constantly go out and speak to people in the library about making noise. Would you want that job? Start looking at the big picture. The university has not provided you with adequate group study space on campus. It does not have to be a separate building, although that would be nice. There have to be many similar sized places that could be temporarily or permanently converted into a study hall. Davis needs to be a reasonably quiet library. UW needs a large study hall space. Both are good things and need to happen, in separate locations. You should both turn to the university administration as the one responsible for making this happen, and point your fingers at them."
"I HATE IT"
"I'm so happy, I finally feel like I can go to DC and not feel like I'm at the V1 caf. This whole thing has made people more civilized in other ways too - getting rid of the distracting groups means I can sit down without someone telling me meanly to move! I love this!"
"I like the idea and the intention. I don't think it is done well. It's offending to be talked down to. I feel like I shouldn't be in the library when those walls are up. It's very unwelcoming. However, I do like the silence of the silent section now. I think the whole thing could have been accomplished by just doing an hourly round up asking people to keep it down AND leaving warning notes for people hogging silent study areas. People use silent areas not just during exams. Please consider that too!!"
"It was hard enough finding tables before. Now it's even worse. Noise level is pretty much the same, but nice try."
"It think the library should work that way the whole year! I'm a grad student and I can't study at DC, it's just too noisy. There are people playing cards, watching movies, chatting... it's impossible. So I go to the Conrad Grebel Library, where I feel my work is respected. The problem is... I'm doing a PhD in maths... no books to help me over there!"
"I'm in DC right now... 2009-04-01 at 5:30PM and it sure doesn't seem very 'quiet' to me. Seems like this was enforced for all of 1 day."
"There are two main factors that allowed Club DC to occur. Firstly, the designers obviously didn't consider that this was a library when creating the floor plan or materials. Open concept is good for some spaces but bad for others. Noise barriers should be added and the tables and computer console areas broken up into much smaller spaces. And who thought it was a good idea to put lounge chairs in the front window for students to hang out? The use of harsh (noise reflective) surfaces only adds to the problems. The second problem is that the DC librarians did nothing to curb the poor student etiquette. With regards to the DP library, the same issues are now happening on the renovated, open-concept main floor. Noise from the cafe spills into the main and study areas and everyone needs to raise their voices a little if they want to be heard. The people sitting at the info and circulation desks need to be more assertive and ask those having loud conversations to leave."
"While I applaud your effort at fixing the noise problem in the Davis Center, what about those of us using the Dana Porter library? I don't know if some of these people have migrated from the Davis Center, but there seem to be a large number of groups giggling and talking at the corner tables on each floor. Is it really that hard to put up a few signs and ask people to be quiet and use the stairwells for phone conversations? WLU and Guelph don't have these issues."
"All the talkers are now in the DP. Please make this a silent study zone too."
"I think that the Exam Study Zone is a good idea but that it should not start during the last week of classes. A lot of students including myself have assignments due this week, including a group project that we would normally complete in the library but could not this week as we needed to talk while completing the project. I also got a glare from one of the patrolling people the other day for talking in a whisper, so I thought that was rude considering I was still following the guidelines of the yellow study areas."
"To those suggesting everyone hating the noise at DC move to DP: I am sorry to say DP is not quite the haven for quiet study it used to be. Having the coffee shop on the main floor means people are loud enough to be heard across the room. I like having it there, but wish the renovations had put a glass wall all around it instead of just on one side. Then there is the problem of people walking in feeling the need to fill the open space with the sound of their loud voices. You have just walked into a LIBRARY! Shhhhhhhhhhh guys! We who are trying to study in the area in front of Reserves Desk can hear every word you are saying. I see librarians running out all the time to shush people standing there talking loud and laughing. What is the matter with you? Why are you so inconsiderate and selfish? Then there is what goes on up on the third floor . . . anyway, whatever the growing noise at DP, it is still way better to DC! I think it was high time for something to be done about that insane racket. Way too much noise, way too little oxygen. I applaud the library staff for having the courage to make what they had to know would be unpopular decision. It is true, everyone here now will be gone in a couple of years. Those coming after will accept what they find as normal. Please stand firm and do this for us and all future students. The 'silent majority' (emphasis on 'silent'), says stick to your guns and make DC a real library again. When finished there, could you can calm down things a bit at DP too please? Thanks very much for this opportunity."
"I have way too much to do and took a break to look at the comments here. I had nothing to add until I looked across the table to a guy sitting in front of me. He is slouched back in his chair and the library web site is clearly on his page. What caught my eye was a smaller page that kept popping up. It said Thank your for voting, Thank you for voting, Thank you for voting ... "
"Wow! I didn't know there were over 26,000 people on campus! That library poll really opened my eyes. There must be a lot of sore fingers in DC right now with all that voting. Remember Club DC'ers: Vote Now! Vote Often! ;)"
"I don't know why so many people are opposed to this. Ever since I've been a little kid, libraries are always places where you go to have quiet / absolute silence. I strongly support having these policies enforced throughout the year. If you want group study book a room or simply find one of the hundreds of empty classrooms that are available in the afternoon or evening. As I said libraries are supposed to be places where one can go for silence not to hear loud groups babble back and forth."
"I like the suggestion of a study hall. Has this been looked into? Is there somewhere on campus we could use now? There is no way a library should be this crazy."
"What hypocrisy! I have read through the comments here and see all these people pointing to the library poll as evidence of what 'the majority' thinks. I laughed to see the one post pointing out the truth. The poll is tainted! I happened to see one guy sitting there voting again, and again, and again. Click, click, click, click, click! The one poster pointing this out said the combined votes are more than the entire population on campus. As long as the button can be pushed more than once, the poll is useless. It is a tool for the few who want to bully and coerce everyone to do what they want. This is sufficient motive for the library to withstand the bullying and finally stop this absurd situation of a library as loud as SLC."
"As someone who welcomes the changes to Davis I want to extend a hand to those resisting this initiative. UW offers a wide variety of courses demanding different types of study. Some require groups to work together to tackle very difficult material and work on large projects. There is no suggestion of stopping this at Davis. The issue is the culture that has grown up around this necessity. Some people call this culture 'Club DC.' This is the problem. How do we solve it? I was interested to read a comment here that Davis was not always set up this way. I assume the layout was changed to allow more group study. Staff now realize they created a monster. I think the solution has to be a re-think of how the floor is organized. How many people can work on a single project together? Those booking the larger study rooms usually max out at 8 to 12. Beyond that the group naturally breaks down into sub groups. What I suggest is we need to create a lot more study rooms like the few we have now. Someone suggested here converting most of the left side of the room into new study rooms. How about moving the left set of book shelves out into the middle with a few gaps for some tables? You would then have an open silent area on the right side, buffered by books with a few tables in the middle, and a series of study rooms holding up to a dozen people each focused on their projects on the left side. Club DC would be gone and Davis Library would remain. If what you want is to study in groups, this should be good. If all you wanted was to have a party in the library, your time is up."
"I really like it. Can it be permanent!!! It is so amazing to be able to walk into the library and not have to yell. I think this is the best idea that the library has had. Unfortunately I know that many students took advantage of DC for group study. I realize that making the DC permanently like the Exam Zone would probably alienate a lot of students because there isn't as good a place for meeting with groups on campus as the DC library."
"I'm extremely happy with the new changes in the library. It was often impossible to study with the noise levels, there was actually less noise outside the library. It's now not loud, but a comfortable study environment."
"This comment is regarding DC library changes and making them permanent for the future. There's a general understanding of the DC library environment, the big open area is the main destination to meet other students from your class and work on assignments together. If you want a moderately quiet area you go the dividers on left side. If you want more strict quiet area you go to the right side and if you want total quiet environment you got to the quiet room. This conversion is understood by many students. The main open area in DC is a unique setup for easy group and student collaboration that doesn't exists in any other place on campus, removing it all together is not ideal. Thanks for considering my comments."
"I think that the Davis Center needs to go back to how it used to be. The new rules, having the separated quiet study and silent areas is ridiculous. Yes, it is true that the open area can get fairly loud at times, but that just requires more monitoring on the parts of the librarians. The boards set up to divide the open area are a bit of a hazard, and are not condusive to studying, as it really dims down the natural light of the place. Also, they make it seem a lot smaller and crowded than it really is. I think that what should happen is leave DC the way it was, and just have a little more stringent monitoring of the noise levels."
"This school is in serious lack of group study areas. There are a total of (approx.) 3 study rooms in dc, maybe 8 in DP, and another 12 in SLC, all of which are usually booked."
"I really dislike the dczone. DC originally separated as group working zone and silent study. Why do we need to change the group working table into a so-called "Quite study"zone? Everyone go to DC "Big Table" are expecting a bit noise. I think if students do need a quiet study area they can go to DP library or DC's silent study area but not change the group working zone to fit their needs."
"AWESOME! Finally, DC is now a place where I can actually study."
"I think it is a good idea but it is not effective. The change was not gradual so people don't really care. All the librarians are rude, and our tuition can be used for better cause."
"IT SUCKS!"
"There are lots of places to study quietly, in Dana Porter you can always find a quiet place to study. I don't understand why you have to turn the scarce area of group studying into a quiet study area. Where is the balance???
"Democracy is overrated. There are times a majority of people are NOT right. A majority voted for George W. Bush in two American elections. They were wrong! A library is supposed to be a place you not only get out books but can read them without having to listen to pickup lines and moronic jokes. I find working with friends in one of the rooms much better than out in the hall. We can focus on our work and don't have to compete with war games at the next table. There are times where we try to work but are surrounded by people all goofing off! When I want to meet my friends and have fun I go to SLC or somewhere else. It is ok to take a break and talk, but some people have no consideration for anyone else. All it takes is one table to spoil it for the room. Thanks for listening."
"Thank you DC for trying to help us. The problem with study groups in one big room is we start having to talk loud just to hear. If we were in rooms, or booths like the one at DP, we could hear each other and would not need to shout. There are not enough study rooms in DC. You could take all those study tables and chairs from the left side of the library and put them out in the center and build a lot more study rooms. Those needing to work in groups could without making so much noise. Right now if a group at one end of DC starts talking loud it spreads and soon we all have to. We need to have study groups, but do not stay in DC anymore. We take our reserve books and go somewhere quiet. Why should students wanting to study in groups have to leave the library because it is too noisy? Those being rude to the librarians are selfish. We all need to work and they are trying to make DC better for us. If they need to talk they should go downstairs, but they don't want to, even though they could talk loud there. They don't like change and are wasting our time instead of studying! Don't worry about those guys. Most of us want you to turn DC into a real library."
"I have never heard of such a noisy library. There needs to be a separate place where people can study in large groups. In September new students will come on campus. They will accept whatever layout they find in DC while the whiners will be off on work term. In a couple of years all of us will be gone. The library has to fix this problem for future as well as present students. Davis is a library and libraries should always be study zones. There have to be ways group study can exist without taking over the whole place. We now have all those loving Davis as a second SLC united in shouting NO at once. Let them. I know the librarians hate this and say they are going to fix this mistake. Leadership means realizing what is right and not letting the noisy mob change your mind. Go ahead and let everyone have their say and then turn this place back into a real library. Thank you!"
"While most people are being adult about this, a few clearly have nothing better to do than spend all day "click, click, clicking" until their wrists are sore on the library web page question about Davis. From what I can see, they are all clicking the "I liked it the way it was before" button. Gee, I guess they liked it a whole lot to spend this much time clicking instead of studying! My guess is staff aren't paying too much attention to the results, as the combined number of votes is larger than the entire population of UW!"
"I notice that many of the negative posts about the DC Exam Study Zone are irrelevant, for one simple fact: the posters don't understand the changes taking place at DC. Posters are disagreeing with the changes being made on the basis that they will no longer be allowed to talk, when that is just not accurate. Conversation is certainly allowed, and collaboration is permitted and encouraged - it just has to be done at a quiet level. I do not understand the need for loud talking and laughter, ringing cell phones, or laptops playing movies or music without headphones. The place for socialization of that kind is NOT a library. You don't have to be silent everywhere in DC (the silent areas are clearly posted), but you DO have to be respectfully quiet."
"Great idea! Thanks a lot, this place is usually very loud. The quiet is much appreciated! :)"
"I love the new silent area but think it needs to be more tightly enforced. In a completely silent area even one person talking echos throughout the entire area and its not fair to other library users. Harsher penalities need to be in place as everyone is informed when entering and signs are posted less than 3 meters from their heads, there is no excuses."
"Thankyou for implementing these changes. I stopped going to the DC to study because it has degraded in the 4 years since I started using it. The group study tables used to be just that: a place where people worked on projects together. But over time they've changed into a hang-out spot where people come to play games on their laptops, eat dinner and even watch movies out loud. People respond with "Go to the DP if you want silent study." Go to the DP if you want to talk! The DC is a nicer place to study, conveniently closer to a cafeteria, Tims, the Plaza, etc. I don't want to see these changes permanent as they are. But something longer term needs to be done. It does have a feel of a police state. But I think there needs to be a return to a civil state of the library. Come and talk and study in a group but understand others are trying to work. Don't come and eat dinner infront of my face when I'm starving but on a deadline. Listen to music with headphones, but not so loudly that you might as well be using your laptop speakers. Why not have the lower level of the DC be a free-for-all where you can have lively discussion, but keep the top level civil for work."
"I think perhaps the staff should stop doing what they want, and start doing what the students want. If you need police to escort people out of the building, you aren't doing what the students want, geniuses."
"I am flabbergasted at the blatant waste of paper as a result of those bookmark slips library staff is handing out. I am appalled that there is an expectation that university students would not understand what the words "quiet" and "silent" mean and require an actual explanation. The inconsiderate people who are going to be loud and distracting already know that they are supposed to be quiet are not going to stop doing so just because they've been told by a slip of paper. The people who are already quiet and considerate of other people's studying were already doing that before being handed a slip of paper."
"Excellent, I have found that even the silent study areas aren't being kept quiet, so perhaps this will bring more silence to the place. About time other students realize that there is a reason it was not named DC Lounge or DC cafe. There are plenty of places without noise restrictions, a library isn't one of them."
"It's WAY improved from what it was before. Before it was completely rowdy. Students were horribly inconsiderate of their neighbours. While I did notice a good improvement in noise level, the whole operation looks very makeshift. Why not have public library rules? Everyone has to be quiet all the time, except for select group-work rooms? If people feel the need to work noisily they can just as easily do that at their own home. I also did not notice anyone enforcing the noise level."
"Fabulous! Finally there is a place where I can hear myself think! Implimenting something like this even in parts of the library at all times would be incredibly helpful."
"DC had become a social hang-out instead of a library. Too many computers and open tables with too few carrels. In physics we are still tested as individuals and there comes a point where you need to quiet down and spend time studying alone. Perhaps engineering can provide some noisy group study areas for their students wanting to collaborate. Now if you can just get rid of the overzealous staff that move your stuff if you leave it for 20 minutes to grab a quick bite of food and a warm drink. Bloody annoying. To avoid this, I now bring my fish sandwiches and eat them at my study carrel."
"Fantastic. I vote for it to stay like this all year. There are far too few quiet work areas on campus. The only problem with the new policy is that you should now be checking the tables on the upper floors of the DP library...the talkers have migrated, much to the disruption of everyone trying to study/work in the DP. Perhaps you could print a few more Exam Study Zone posters and place them on each floor of the DP? The 6th floor used to be quiet :("
"So who's listening to the students? The poll at lib.uwaterloo.ca sees a remarkably clear response from students more than 95% of which say they preferred DC the way it was rather than the sham it has become now. Please open your eyes now, can we just reverse these changes. At least send the police out of there!? We haven't committed a crime, how astoundingly absurd is it to have Campus Police patrolling inside the library. Furthermore the FAQ reads groups are still welcome at the library. I was asked to quiet it down for powering up my computer! The second you even open your mouth someones warning you. You're just harming the image, just follow the poll!"
"This is a great idea, but mainly pointless if not enforced. There is a group of people currently disturbing me in a quiet study zone as I write this."
"Love it. For the 3 years I've been at Waterloo, DC has been more similar to a food court than a library...Quiet zone is inviting, and more waaaay work gets done. Make this permanent! If people want to talk, go to the SLC, or anywhere else on campus for that matter! Everyone I've talked to about this seems to agree."
"This policy is utterly ridiculous as it robs the university of its only noise-tolerant and highly accessible working area. There is already a significant area at DC that is dedicated to quiet study space. I refer here to the right side and left side of the library (as viewed upon entrance) as well as the entire bottom floor. In addition to this space, there is the entire Dana Porter library (all x many floors of it, where x is a number between 5 and 15) and the silent area of SLC. This constitutes to a very large quiet study space on campus that students who prefer not to talk while studying can go to. The current poll on lib.uwaterloo.ca shows an overwhelmingly negative reaction towards the policy that is in place. The poll options also seem very biased. I can see: Love it! It's okay Liked it better before. Don't care either way. I never visit DC. Where is an option for "I have nothing but sheer contempt for this new policy" or at least something to that effect? You know, if you're going to put "Love it!" as an option, make an effort to include the opposite. I'm sure that not everyone that comes to the common area of DC does collaborative studying. I know that many talk about completely inane things and play video games. But to punish the rest of us, who actually do work as a group, because of their actions seems a lot like collective punishment. This, and I'm perhaps stretching the analogy, is equivalent to draining an entire swamp to eliminate a few mosquitoes. Sure, you'll get the mosquitoes but you will also kill the rest of the swamp-life. To drive this a bit closer to home, and yet stretching another analogy (a bit longer this time), this is like air-bombing an entire civil population to get rid of a few criminals hiding in their midst. With that, I end my rant in hopes that you will reverse the policy and again allow the chatter (study-related of course) to flourish in the common area of the DC library. And also, for goodness’ sake, remove the horrid barriers. Thanks!"
"AMAZING! I have only ever studied in DC twice in my life at UW (currently in 4th year) because "CLUB DC" was way too loud. Please - for the love of God - do the same thing to DP, specifically on the third floor. As a student with a learning disability, I can really appreciate the added quietness DC currently has to offer. Also another idea I think you guys should look into is cell phone jammers. They block cell phone reception form reaching the phones - and I think this would be beneficial in studying areas. Again guys, great idea - I hope to see this in the DP library too!"
"Love it! Make it a permanent thing."
"Look at the polls and shut this mess down. Those that support the quiet zone obviously don't belong at this school as they didn't have the intelligence to figure out that they could have found a quiet environment at DP for the last 50 years."
"I dislike the study zone with a passion. Shutting down the group study area has greatly impeded my ability to study effectively for exams. I study with other classmates and when any of us have confusion on a topic or a problem in class we collaboratively solve the problem. DC is the only library on campus that allows us to do this in the group study area. There is already a dedicated area and another library that have a lot of space for quiet study. I think there are other students that learn the same as I do and now that DC has no more group study area it will greatly effect their studying."
"Good. About time the DC quiets down. Now can you move onto the DP to make sure all that is quiet as well?"
"Hi, I would just like to say that although I appreciate the initiative of trying to create a better study environment at DC, I think you have hugely misjudged the situation. Students come to DC as a more relaxed environment to study in. If people want to have complete silence they would go to DP or the silent section of DC. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but for someone like me who needs some noise in order to focus you have ruined one of the best study spots of campus. I challenge you to go student to student to ask a simple question - "yes or no, do you like the changes?" - and you will quickly see the mistake you have made. After all, it is the students, and not your own agendas, that you should be trying to serve."
"Terrible...There are already enough quiet study areas. The table area of DC was perfect for more casual/social as well as for group work."
"Thank you for turning DC into a library rather than a cacophony that curiously stored books."
"The environment is NOT conducive to studying at all. The people who are working at the library harass the students. I was harassed when I came in and then another lady harassed the people sitting beside me. Her constant "warnings" to the students was more disturbing than the students themselves. Eventually the students left. I do not see what they were doing wrong. One guy was just explaining something to the other. The point of studying in the library is to help each other and study together. This new format is ridiculous. You might as well shut down DC and tell everyone to study at home."
"I have to agree with the majority of people, its a good idea for exams and silly if kept any other time. DP has plenty of silent space and if people are too lazy to go there then that is their issue."
"I disagree with the new quiet study at DC. DC is the only realistic area where people can study and talk about their problems and homework. The alternative areas for studying are unreasonable, on the paper passed around there were suggestions like POETS and SLC. POETS acts as a movie theater and bar, it should not be compared to as a study area. The SCL is always extremely busy and you can never find a spot to sit, there are very few tables. In general I don't think people would be as upset if there was somewhere else people could go to study at tables in a group, however this place does not exist, the only place was taken away from us. On the other hand there are numerous places for silent study; DP is about 10 floors dedicated to silent study so why take our only option and change it. I have been in the library when the quietly study rules have been in effect and it appears that everyone around me ignores the rules. The librarians around the school are constantly telling people to be quiet so obviously if there is a need for librarians to be the security, not enough people want the quiet study area."
"The Exam Study Zone is an excellent idea. The noise level at DC library has increased over period of time, at least since Fall 2005 (that's when I started at Waterloo). I do agree with another feedback provider whose girlfriend visited from McGill. Indeed, I have been at McGill's "Cyberthèque" several times --- its noise level is considerably lower than our DC. Let's face it. The pro-noise argument in DC under the cloak of "collaborative work" is simply rubbish. Never mind the actual number of group work assigned --- it's highly improbable that the whole main floor of DC has been assigned some group work at the same time --- people yell and shout while non-study related activities from playing online games to watching movies (some of which are highly inappropriate for the public viewing). Does playing World of Warcraft constitute a part of "group study"? I wouldn't have cared less if people were not shouting/yelling over whatever they are doing. (In the same logic, I would still be highly critical if people were shouting/yelling on a legitimate group work.) I really do not need to, nor do I want to, hear about hot guy/girl that you saw last night at bar. You are in a library! While the so-called "sampling bias" argument has some merit, but really? I'm sure one may be able to find evidences countering the bias if the surveys were ideally conducted. Moreover, if one actually has listened properly in a first introductory statistics course, one should be well aware that there are some things that simply can't be handled with statistics alone. This is such case --- it is a matter of principle what the library should be like. Of course, I cannot but agree, though reluctantly, if one insists that the majority of student population shapes the principles. After all, that's how we pressure instructors to "curve" the marks in this "glorified high school"."
"It's HORRIBLE! My friends and I use to be able to come to DC to work together on projects, assignments and to study for exams. We can't do that anymore because of the new regulations. The brown pin boards everywhere make the library dark, unwelcoming, and very hard to study in. They also prevent us from finding our each other (my classmates and I) when we're at the library. The people who suggested a quieter place to study should go to Dana Porter Library, after all, there are ten floors where they can have peace and quiet, but only one floor in DC where we can study as a group."
"The quiet study zone needs to be more quiet and less talking.. "
"This is a great idea and should be implemented in the following semesters."
"Question" "I'm wondering if--like DC--the Porter library will have a quiet exam study zone?" Answer: DP is a real library, not a social club and cafeteria. Because it is a real library, all of it is an exam study zone with no need to set aside special areas."
"I have been told Davis was a normal quiet library up until about 5 years ago. There was no open area in the middle and everything was broken up between rows of books and a small set of tables. Somehow everyone managed to do their work just fine. Everyone I know hates how noisy it is! We only come here because we have to. There are no end of names we give it, including a dating zone, a train station, a shopping mall ... NOT a library! We go up and complain and the librarians say lots of students do. They all say it is a problem. I have never heard any staff say they like not hearing themselves think. Those people who thought it was a good idea then regret it now and are trying to fix it. I know there are times people need to study in groups. The answer is to create a lot more separate group study rooms and soundproof them. Here is another solution, what this campus needs is a study hall. Other campuses have them and they are in separate buildings to their libraries. Can't we find and free up some space somewhere on campus and create a long overdue study hall? Another issue is all the stupid stuff people do in here. If people want to play cards or computer games or watch movies why don't they go home - or the SLC? Why do they have to have a party in the library? Where else would anyone even think of using a library like this? They say those who shout they loudest have the least to say. If a few people want noise around them it doesn't mean it has to be inflicted on the rest of us. I want to thank the librarians for listening to the "silent majority." Do not give in! This library used to be quiet, make it quiet again. You are in charge, make your changes and stick by your decision. The "silent majority" are quietly cheering you on!"
"See it as too much control. I think the staff has gone overboard with the signs and degree to which DC be made a more quieter area. Honestly, I feel the central tables should have been left untouched. There were enough silent study cubicles. If anyone wants a more quiet environment, then they should go to Dana Porter (DP)...DC's charm is in its social gathering spot/library aspect. Don't like it very much."
"I just read about the proposed changes to the DC library. The DC library has always been a haven for me since it allows me to do my work and yet discuss my work with my friends and classmates. Noise at the DC has never been an issue for me, even during exam time, so I am quite concerned that a small faction of students have convinced authorities that the DC is too loud. I am apposed to the changes that are happening in the DC. There are many silent study areas around the university and very few study areas that still allow for discussion amongst the students. The changes to the DC pose a large disservice to those students who enjoy the DC atmosphere for what it is; a library that allows for conversations to take place."
"Good call on quieting down DC."
"There should be a poll or forum before changing the DC Library! It is the only place people can get group work done. Once that's gone, there is no replacement. What will we do then!? The reason why the DC is so popular right now, is because people like it the way it is, we are a silent majority... if people want silence, they go to the DP. The only changes the DC needs are: plugs on every table, faster bandwidth, and more seating space (just shows how popular it is). But otherwise, why mess with a good thing? I suspect that the new rules will either be largely ignored, or people will simply stop using the library. What people would use as a replacement to do their group work, sadly, I still don't know :("
"I think it is great that measures are being taken to make the DC library more appropriate for studying. The fact that it has remained this way for so long surprises me. A drastic change is long over due. I absolutely support continuing these exam study zone measures during the rest of the year. Please don't allow disgruntled students to dissuade this effort. Thank you."
"The idea of the Silent Study Zone in the Davis Centre library disappoints me. Since I arrived at UW (and I'm in my second program here now) DC has been a place where I could sit and engage in collaborative study with my classmates. It was a unique study space where people could study and not feel uncomfortable that the sound of me asking a question to my neighbor or the sound of the fan on my computer cuts through the silent atmosphere like a knife. I understand that some people need silence to study. However, there is currently a silent study area in DC, as well as all of the study space in Dana Porter and the quiet study floor in the SLC. I do not know if this decision has already been made permanently, however I had a feeling that the way it came about is because the only feedback you're getting is people coming to complain. I want to make you aware that there are many more people who like DC the way it is than people who are complaining--nobody thinks to leave comments when they see nothing wrong with the service you were providing as it was before these new changes. Please take these points to consideration before implementing this silent study nonsense for good. Thank you."
"Thank you, thank you, thank you! I cannot express how happy I am to see that this is being implemented. I stopped going to the DC library months ago because every time I did, I got no work done due to excessive noise and distractions. I really hope this stays permanent. The library is a place to get work done in silence, not play games and chat with friends. If I wanted to do that, I'd throw a party at my house. Thanks again :)"
"I understand implementing more quiet study space in DC during the exam period (even though I don't like it), but I've heard this change will be permanent by fall 2009. I love studying in DC b/c the buzz of everyone around me keeps me focused. Silent study does not work for me at all. Additionally, DC is the perfect place to study in groups, or work on group assignments. Please don't change DC! Send quiet studiers to DP! Thanks for listening."
"FINDINGS I can't believe the University of Waterloo makes their decisions based on "At least 50%", especially when the the sampling size does not represent the school. For a good representation of the total undergrad population, a sample size calculator would have told you needed a larger sample size. There are many resources in our own backyard, stats profs and students, who would have told you that your findings are insignificant. I read the noise reports survey and it didn't show conclusive evidence that people think the noise level is unacceptable. I am so disappointed in the way you performed your research and concluded on your findings. You have many biases that were not controlled. I am sad to say that ashamed of this school. IMPLEMENTATION As a student, I go to DC to sit at the tables when I have to do group work. It is one of the only spots on campus during the weekday where groups can come together. By implementing this project on March 29, a day before last week of school when the majority of group work is due, many people including myself will have trouble meeting with group members at school. I believe the timing is all wrong and the dates for implementation should have been after classes are done (Apr 3rd). POST REACTION I heard from another student sitting beside me that a survey will be completed a week into the pilot, to see the reaction of the pilot. If you go to the students sitting down I can conclude that you will have a bias of students who will like the idea. This is because you will have successfully moved away all those individuals who don't like the idea."
"In terms of the "Noise Reports Survey", I consider that it is not a Scientific demographic. What was the sampling method? It is not clear from the document how people were polled. Otherwise I think it naturally would be skewed to those that want change. Please, I ask you to poll students again to see how your 'improvements' are working."
"It is terrible. The divisions prevent natural light from getting to the tables that are not in the back. The divisions are also the most disgusting color I have ever seen. On top of that you are removing a place for people to meet during exam time, as the SLC is always full, especially during peak hours. If people want a silent study people will go to DP."
"Hello: I first would like to say thank you for responding to many students' popular demand: to reduce the noise level in DC library. However, in my humble opinion this low noise level policy should not be just enforced during the exam time, but all the time. I acknowledge that DC library's group study space is for groups of people to collaborate with each other on academic matters and students are permitted to have a *quiet* conversation with their peers. However, most of the times (or, whenever I am in DC library), the noise level is just too high and indeed the environment is extremely distracting. Here's an anecdote from my personal experience:
My girlfriend from McGill visited DC library, and she compared the noise level of DC library to the that of a cafeteria. Quite an embarrasing moment. I've been to McGill's "Cybertheque" library which roughly maps to DC library here;it has group collaboration spaces and etc. It was a pleasant surprise to see how people actually can collaborate without yelling, talk about their girl/boyfriends and et cetra. Having said that, there is absolutely no reason why the current level of noise and distraction should be permitted at any time of the year in our library, never mind the exam period. It is perfectly possible to have a group collaboration with very little noise. If people need to talk about their personal life loudly with their friends, that's fine, but they do NOT need to do that in the library. They can go to SLC, empty lecture rooms and do that.I know annoyed students can report to the librarians, or tell kids to shut up, but it sucks to do that. Most of students who are annoyed are by themselves, and people talk loud are usually in groups of four or more. I am not sure how to explain this human psychology, but you get the idea. I guess one of the most important things to do is to make it a common sense not to talk about stupid stuff loudly with their friends anywhere in a library. I'm not so sure how to achieve that but it looks like a norm in all the other libraries.Thanks for listening to my rant."
"I'm wondering if--like DC--the Porter library will have a quiet exam study zone?"
"Thanks for your interest in my question. Yes, I was interested in seeing an exam study zone at Porter Library. At times, particularly when the library is busy, and in the evenings, students gather to study but end up distracted by one another. If one table starts chatting or losing focus, this lack of focus easily spreads. If the culture of a quiet library for the end of term and exam period is fostered (perhaps through signage, more designated quiet study areas, communications such as email, or the "enforcement" of such areas--even simply through the occasional presence of a librarian), it may have a positive effect on students attitude toward the library space they share with others who are under the stress of final assignments and exams."
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